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plug in kit for v?

Discussion in 'Prius v Accessories and Modifications' started by suprat04r, Jan 10, 2013.

  1. suprat04r

    suprat04r Junior Member

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    Is there an aftermarket plug in kit forbthe prius v?
     
  2. Avi's Advanced Automotive

    Avi's Advanced Automotive Independent hybrid repair shop

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  3. usnavystgc

    usnavystgc Die Hard DIYer and Ebike enthusiast.

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    IMO, the Prius, (Plug In excepted) is not a good candidate for "PHEV" conversion unless you use the "Enginer (no longer in business)" type of conversion . Here's why:

    1) It is designed as a gasoline (primary) car with electric assist. It is for this reason that the electric motors do not have enough power to safely propel the car. With electric mode only, the car is really underpowered and not safe to drive on the streets (my opinion but, try to take off w/out having the ICE fire up and it will give you an idea of the anemic performance of electric only mode)
    2) The Prius has advanced, high-tech monitoring systems (called ECU's) that all work together to make this engineering marvel work. Adding more battery capacity requires modifying what one ECU sees which causes multiple problems with other ECU's.


    The old adage that "every time you fix a problem you have to solve another" has major application here. A typical scenario may go like this:

    Problem/Fix: The battery runs out or low in "EV" mode, I need a bigger battery (thousands of dollars)
    New problem: Adding a bigger battery requires spoofing or/reprogramming the Battery ECU
    Fix: Then I will reprogram/spoof the ECU so I can use the bigger battery (hundreds of dollars)
    New problem: Now that I have this bigger battery and the ECU spoofed, the ICE still wants to come on when I accelerate normally
    Fix: I can use OutOfGas mode to stop the ICE from coming on (cheap)
    New problem: The stock electric motors/inverter setup are not strong enough to power the car in most situations and... if I want to use the ICE, I have to pull over, turn the car off and then back on to allow the ICE to be used (then you have the above problem of the ICE coming on too much)
    Fix: I need to install a larger electric motor (thousands of dollars)
    New problem: The inverter cannot power the new motor
    Fix: I need a new motor controller/inverter (thousands of dollars)
    New problem: I've spent so much money on converting my Prius that there is no return on investment and I can't sell it b/c noone wants a car that's had this many mods
    Fix: I need to take every mod off and return the car to its original state (thousands of dollars)

    (It reminds me of a story I heard in grade school where a king had mice in his castle and wanted to get rid of them. So... he brought in cats then, he had too many cats so... he brought in dogs. This continued until he brought in elephants. Having too many elephants, the only thing he could think of to get rid of the elephants was mice. He brought back the mice, the elephants left and he lived happily ever after)

    There are other numerous reasons why the Prius shouldn't be converted unless you're going to gut the HSD and add an electric drive system that can handle the requirements. The stock Prius electrical system cannot handle the requirements on its own. It needs the gas engine and the gas engine needs the electrical system. They have a symbiotic relationship.


    Additionally, beware of doing business with Plug In Supply. I have personally experienced their shoddy business practices to the tune of over $2000 in lost money. I would not recommend them to anyone.
     
  4. SynEco@eVehicle.co.nz

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    Beware of this biased opinion
     
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  5. SynEco@eVehicle.co.nz

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    YEs, And a well designed PHEV will increase the level of EV assist and reduce ( half) the fuel consumption. reference .. RechargeIT.org

    Push the throttle for MORE power and full electric + ICE assist power WILL be available.
    Yes the PRIUS is an engineering marvel AND a well designed PHEV integration will be transparent to the other ECUs and NOT cause further problems as claimed.

    The SCENARIO below seems to be by someone who has unrealistic expectations of what a PHEV upgrade is
    A PHEV is NOT a pure EV.
    If you want pure EV buy a iMEIV or Nissan Leaf or TESLA.
    If you want to reduce your Petrol Fuel consumption in your hybrid PHEV upgrade is a valid way to go ..
    NOT trying to use the PHEV without EVER burning petrol when power is needed ..eg using OOG mode.

    You CAN go 60-75 km with using minimal to no gas( EV mode) if you are on flat around town driving for Motorway or Hill climbing driving you will likely HALF your fuel consumption based on real world experience.

    Above seems to describe someone trying to achieve pure EV only mode from a hybrid this is NOT a valid reason or expectation of doing a PHEV upgrade.

    The PRIUS is not a good subject for an pure EV conversion BUT IS an excellent candidate for a PLUG-IN Hybrid Vehicle upgrade.
    A PHEV conversion add an additional external energy source by upgrading a Hybrid Electric Vehicle into a "PLUG-IN" Hybrid Electric Vehicle to reduce ( NOT eliminate fuel usage totally)
    For actual real world results from PHEV upgrade of PRIUS see

    RechargeIT.org
    RechargeIT.org

    These are the realistic expectations of what can be achieved with a HYBRID PlugIN Vehicle.. specifically a PRIUS PHEV upgrade ....
     
  6. usnavystgc

    usnavystgc Die Hard DIYer and Ebike enthusiast.

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    SynEco,
    The PHEV upgrade you seem to speak of (Hymotion Kit) is an "Enginer" type of conversion. If you notice the first line of my post I state
    unless you use the "Enginer (no longer in business)" type of conversion
    Everything that I state is exactly true. You may not want to hear it but, it has to be discussed and at a minimum it has to be laid out here for others to contemplate (and maybe even solve these problems).

    Here is Popular Mechanics review of the Hymotion Kit.
    The Drive
    We used a standard extension cord to connect our garage-wall outlet to the bumper port of the Prius. The car's brake lights illuminated to inform us that the juice was indeed flowing and then dimmed to indicate that the batteries were charging. After roughly six hours, the brake lights turned off, which meant the pack was fully charged.
    The dash switch that engages the A123 battery pack has a light that glows when the system is engaged and battery has a charge. As soon as the supplemental battery is depleted, the light turns off so we would know exactly when it was drained.
    We pressed the main power button on the Prius and immediately the gas engine kicked on. While we had enough electrical power on board to move the car easily, the engine still runs every now and then to warm up. It was a chilly, 46-degree morning and if we had wanted to heat the cabin, the engine would have continued running. But it was our job to see how we far we could travel on electric power so we shut off the climate control.
    Our in-town loop consisted mostly of stop-and-go driving with peak speeds less than 50 mph. We quickly realized that a subtle right foot is required to keep the gas engine from coming to life and we practiced our best hypermiling techniques. Anything more than a quarter-throttle and/or uphill grades caused the engine to kick on.
    It was possible to pull away on pure electric power and accelerate up to roughly 35 mph. Above that speed, the engine would cycle on and off and we knew from a drive the previous day that the engine would sometimes turn off once the car was cruising-even at 65 mph.
    Our best indication of the engine's operation was the Prius's energy-flow screen, which shows the power flowing from the engine and batteries to the front wheels and conversely displays reverse flow when coasting or braking. One thing we noticed was that the Hymotion computer reprogramming wasn't perfect. The battery icon, which is supposed to show the state of charge of both batteries, flickered between green and blue, making it almost impossible to tell how much charge was left.
    Functionally, however, the car felt like a standard Prius-the difference was that it was in electric-only mode far more often. Since the Prius's electric motor is only good for 67 hp, the gas engine had to assist from time to time, but careful driving kept that to a minimum.
    After 24 miles the light went off, indicating that the A123 battery was depleted. We charged up the battery again that night. The next day we drove a different loop that had less traffic lights- this time, the Prius went 25 miles. Once the A123 battery is drained, the Prius behaves like the standard-issue Toyota product.
    We also measured the fuel economy during our short drive-it averaged 54 mpg. That figure is not accurate, however, because the amount of fuel we added was about a gallon and filling the gas tank to the exact same point both times proved impossible. A little extra gas on the refill makes a dramatic swing in the mpg figures. The Prius's onboard computer registered 70 mpg, which is likely closer to the real number. It's also important to note that "miles per gallon" is a misleading number here, because we didn't increase efficiency, we just used electrical energy in place of chemical energy.
    If you read it, you'll notice they point out all of the problems I listed like:​
    1) We quickly realized that a subtle right foot is required to keep the gas engine from coming to life and we practiced our best hypermiling techniques. Anything more than a quarter-throttle and/or uphill grades caused the engine to kick on.
    2) It was possible to pull away on pure electric power and accelerate up to roughly 35 mph. Above that speed, the engine would cycle on and off
    3) Since the Prius's electric motor is only good for 67 hp, the gas engine had to assist from time to time, but careful driving kept that to a minimum.
    It is prudent for us to rationally discuss this rather than bashing someone and accusing them of being biased. The fact is, if you are a human (which I assume you are), you are biased. I encourage you to consider other sources besides the one you cited.
    The facts are this and can't be disputed:
    1) The Prius is designed as a gasoline vehicle w/ electric assist
    2) The electric motors are designed to supplement the ICE
    3) The two enjoy a symbiotic relationship that no amount of batteries can alter
     
  7. SynEco@eVehicle.co.nz

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    We made no mention what so ever of HyMotion or any other supplier ... (although the Google ref. may have)

    We recommend a parallel pack or pack replacement ... for PRIUS PHEV upgrades..

    Using a DC/DC convertor merely introduce another power limitation link in the chain of the DC/DC Invertor selected in the design which is usually less than power output that the OEM HSD booster/invertor can supply. So the added DC/DC convertor then becomes the weakest link in the chain. ( or the batteries if not capable of full parallel current demands So battery selection is also VERY important).

    So with that DC/DC type architecture you are correct it is more limited to an PlugIN EV assist to the ICE rather than PHEV electric drive with ICE assist if required.

    After we tested DC/DC approach for PHEV conversions and comparing with the parallel pack /pack replacement approach we decided NOT to go the DC/DC way ... With the right battery selection more EV drive is available from a direct parallel pack or full replacement pack ( NOT the Contactor method used by other suppliers which by the was an appropriate hardware approach prior to analysis of the PRIUS CANbus and being able to use software and CANbus ECU integration to manage the HSD and PHEV control)

    But each to his is own analysis and testing ....

    And you are right the PRIUS is NOT the right vehicle for a full EV conversion
    The Prius is the right vehicle to convert from Hybrid electric assisted ICE to an PlugIN Electric Hybrid electric Drive with ICE assist for full power when required.
    The symbiotic relationship can be altered to electric drive as primary and ICE as power assist BUT not ONLY by adding batteries. You also need the intelligence of the integration messaging in the PHEV ecu to the OEM hECU and ECM to achieve this properly.
     
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