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Plug-in hybrid emits four times more CO2 than advertised

Discussion in 'Prime Main Forum (2017-2022)' started by godzillaismad, Oct 22, 2017.

  1. godzillaismad

    godzillaismad Member

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    Here you go again, but this time is to do with a plug-in hybrid... Research done by Australian Automobile Association.
    Electric hybrid car emits four times more CO₂ than advertised, real-world testing shows

    Didn't mention which car specifically.

    I think the real problem is the overly optimistic NECD or similar fuel figures. The Mitsubishi Outlander Plug-In rated just 1.7l/100km! Of course, they have small prints stating it's for the first 100km and the battery must be fully charged. To compound the problem, the overly estimated battery range of 60km was nowhere near the real world driving range, hence the report above.

    I think what the US has is fairly accurate and less misinformation. The fuel label states the electric range and the hybrid fuel figure separately, and they are not overly optimistic like the ones we use here.

    No system is perfect, but we could simply just throw all the current silly testing standards and just copy what the US has been doing, it would be a huge improvement... can't be that hard, could it?
     
    #1 godzillaismad, Oct 22, 2017
  2. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web BMW i3 and Model 3

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    Now that the Australian automobile industry no longer builds cars, there may be a chance to revisit Australian testing.

    Bob Wilson
     
    #2 bwilson4web, Oct 22, 2017
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  3. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    will it ever end?

    the headline is preposterous hyperbole, in relation to the body of the article.
    i can't argue with real world testing, but i think the editor has an agenda. the article isn't bad at all.
     
    #3 bisco, Oct 22, 2017
    Last edited: Oct 22, 2017
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  4. godzillaismad

    godzillaismad Member

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    Ended last Friday... The last 2, Toyota and GM Holden all gone within October

    SM-G900I ?
     
    #4 godzillaismad, Oct 22, 2017
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  5. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    sorry, i meant the anti ev/hybrid bias. see my edit.
     
    #5 bisco, Oct 22, 2017
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  6. davids45

    davids45 Active Member

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    G'day,
    This 'report' of a report by an industry association - one I'd imagine including fee-paying car-makers and petroleum companies who don't want to change their 'status quo' - only talks of percentages and not absolute values - so a small absolute change from a small base "laboratory" value can be a higher percentage than a larger absolute increase from a much higher base laboratory value.

    And no vehicle models or brands are given, perhaps to avoid upsetting certain 'association members'?

    The opening paragraph has "A purportedly eco-friendly hybrid electric car emits four times more greenhouse gas than manufacturers claim..." - a singular car with plural makers? 'Tar everyone with the same brush'?
    The article headline says '.....hybrids may struggle with emissions claims' but only mentions one hybrid as I read the text. Later the article suggests to me this was a "plug-in hybrid", cold-engine tested with a low charge in the battery.

    I note the text of the article in my Sydney morning paper (yes, I have a paper paper) said that 11 out 12 diesel vehicles tested exceeded their published NOx laboratory limit but this didn't make the article headline. I guess that's not actually news any longer.

    Nonetheless, 'He who pays the piper, picks the tune' still applies by the looks of it.

    Could be more interesting if the actual report gets published.

    Breath not being held.
    David S.
     
    #6 davids45, Oct 22, 2017
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  7. godzillaismad

    godzillaismad Member

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    Yes, there seems to be an anti hybrid/ev stand here. But I think it's less so thanks to VW dieselgate. The diesel crows were the main opponents in the past.

    It's the usual bad journalism, the title is no doubt a click bait and also in the hope that someone will say, I told you so hybrid is no better than or worst than xyz.

    SM-G900I ?
     
    #7 godzillaismad, Oct 22, 2017
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  8. Tideland Prius

    Tideland Prius Moderator of the North
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    might explain why AU isn't getting too many PHEVs (is it just the Outlander? no more Holden Ampera?). Now that the manufacturing industry is gone, who are they protecting?
     
    #8 Tideland Prius, Oct 23, 2017
  9. godzillaismad

    godzillaismad Member

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    GM volt Gen 2.0 not being imported. GM literally killed the Volt 1.0 by pricing it too high, they only sell a handful during its time here. It would have been a good alternative to the Prius, but... nvm.

    There are other European offerings for the plug in hybrids available. Most have a very hefty starting price though, therefore shut out most buyers.


    SM-G900I ?
     
    #9 godzillaismad, Oct 23, 2017
  10. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web BMW i3 and Model 3

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    Is that a Murdoch publication?

    Bob Wilson
     
    #10 bwilson4web, Oct 23, 2017
  11. bhtooefr

    bhtooefr Senior Member

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    The NEDC way of reporting PHEV efficiency is also messed up - it basically ends up being... run the test cycle for the charge depleting range, then run it for 25 km more, and figure out how much fuel was used versus distance traveled.

    The US way of simply reporting all of the numbers - charge depleting electrical efficiency, charge depleting fuel efficiency (because some vehicles need to fire the engine in charge depleting mode), charge depleting all-electric range, charge depleting total range, and charge sustaining fuel efficiency - is far more accurate, even if it doesn't create a summary value. (Although, charge depleting MPGe (for the entire charge depleting range including fuel) is often used as one, even though 33.7 kWh of electricity isn't the same thing as 1 gallon of gasoline as far as emissions (could be worse if it's 100% coal, could be amazingly better if it's renewable), and it isn't the same thing as 1 gallon of gasoline as far as cost.)
     
    #11 bhtooefr, Oct 23, 2017
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  12. davids45

    davids45 Active Member

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    G'day Bob W.,
    Surprisingly perhaps to an up-overer like yourself, would you believe the article appeared in the papers in competition to the Murdoch rags here.
    The Murdoch-opposition "Sydney Morning Herald" and (Melbourne) "Age" are seen as the more intelligent person's choice of breakfast reading (of course, I could be biased ;) .)
    Still doesn't preclude shallow journalism unfortunately.

    David S.
     
    #12 davids45, Oct 23, 2017
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  13. godzillaismad

    godzillaismad Member

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    +1

    Also, the dieselgate might have gotten a little old, so other are trying to be creative, i.e. click bait.
     
    #13 godzillaismad, Oct 24, 2017
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