Planning to install 220 electrical outlet

The specs on the 23 Prime are not out yet. If it is the same as current PPs, then 16A is all you need. I doubt it will be different for the 23 PP. But if you are installing a new dedicated circuit, you should install at least a 50A breaker circuit to future-proof. With a 50A breaker, you should be able to use up to 40A L2 EVSE if the car allows it.

 

Good question.

First, it is 240 volts. The long-ago used 220 volt has been dead for quite awhile. It's important to know that when calculating expectations.

Odds are the "6.6 kW" rate will continue to be the advertised speed. That's a generic reference, since 208-volt systems are what you'll encounter at public charging-stations. With the maximum pull of 32 amps, that calculates to 6.6 kW for a rate (208 * 32). At home, you have single-phase power which is available at a higher voltage than that 3-phase. As a result, you'd be able to see as much as 7.7 kW (240 * 32). More likely, pull requested from the car will be 30 amps maximum. That sets an expectation of 7.2 kW.

The importance of all that math is to under what that "7.2 kW" means. It represents the amount of electricity you will be able to pull from the EVSE (your level-2 device) per hour (hence a "kWh" value). Taking electrical loss from charging account, let's say you can save 7.0 kWh into the battery-pack per hour (prior to the slow down when approaching full). Assuming you are averaging a drive efficiency of 3.5 mi/kWh (miles per kilowatt-hour), you would be able to gain roughly 25 miles of EV per hour.

Long story short, you would want the following minimum to achieve that... 8-gauge wire with a 40-amp breaker. Since the specifications for a NEMA 14-50 outlet can handle more of a load and a future plug-in vehicle could benefit from that, consider 6-gauge wire with a 50-amp breaker. Naturally, the power pulled from the line is dependent upon both the vehicle and the EVSE you purchase.

For my own personal setup, my wife and I had conduit installed with 8-gauge wire and a 40-amp breakers for each EVSE over 5.5 years ago, taking advantage of a $500 rebate for each from our electricity provider along with off-peak discounted rates. Now on the eve of replacing my Prius Prime with a bZ4X, that choice of configuration proved a wise one. I will be able to continue to use that setup completely unaltered. Had the maximum rate for the BEV been higher, I could have easily pull 6-gauge wire and upgrade the breaker to 50-amp. So, no regrets on that capacity decision oh so long ago.

Most importantly, keep in mind that the EVSE requires a 20% safety buffer. So if you want to pull 32 amps continuously, you must have 40-amp capacity. To pull 40 amps, you need a 50-amp capacity. So when you decide to purchase a "32" or "40" amp EVSE, keep in mind that reference is for the pull-speed not line-capacity.

 

The Prime can use a much smaller connection.

Install it inside for ease of use with the car you have. If you get two evs later you will almost certainly have to upgrade your incoming power service. Having 50 amps now for the Prime just future proofs a later ev.

50 amps requires #6 copper back to your panel along with available physical and electrical capacity. Straightforward unless you don't have one or the other.

You may see some charts were #8 is close to 50 amps. Those values require a maximum 80% utilization. So avoid that mistake. Insulation makes a difference as well but #6 cable is typically used in residential.

This chart is already derated.

 

If you install inside, how much would an extra outside outlet cost, maybe not that much?

 

If you are asking these questions, here, you likely need to consult an electrician.

It depends on the capacity of your service, where the main service panel is located, and where you want the outlets. Im a finished garage, if you want in wall wiring or if surface wiring in EMT conduit will do. For 50 amps, you will need 8 gauge copper wiring.

 

Wow... that car pulls that much power to charge the battery?

And use krylon plastic piping nobody uses EMT anymore unless its commercial as it requires a bender tool and some experience bending that pipe.

 

we haven't seen the actual specs of the 2023 Prime yet. The outgoing Prime only pulled a max of 16A at 240v. But if you're going to the cost and trouble of installing a dedicated 240v line, you may as well future proof it. It's cheaper in the long run to install once and have it ready for your next car if you think you might upgrade to a BEV eventually.

 

Serious question: Why ??

Doesn't it come standard with a 110 V charging cord, which likely will work with an existing outlet ?
Or a circuit/outlet that could be upgraded much easier and cheaper ??

I think that most people don't NEED the faster charging capacity.

 

put your stuff outside and your prius inside.

otoh, if it burns, you'd be better off outside

 

Our choice to install two 240-volt lines 5.5 years ago was great decision. We got two $500 checks for having each EVSE connected to an in-line meter providing off-peak discount electricity. Now all that time later, I'm looking at replacing my Prius Prime with a bZ4X. Nothing needs to be changed. That same hardware works as is. If my wife decides to upgrade to the 2017 Prime with a 2023 Prime, no change either.

My suggestion is to carefully consider outlet location. For us, both were placed by the garage door. That way, charging inside & outside the garage is realistic for either. In my situation, I was backing my Prime into the garage so we would have maximum space between the two vehicles for driver doors. Since the charging port on 4X with is in the identical location if I pull in forward to the garage, no change necessary. (Since we have a third stall to the left of the vehicles there's room; not all homeowners are so fortunate.) If my wife ends up getting some bZ vehicle later, the cord from her EVSE will reach simply by hanging it over the vehicle.

As for capacity, go with 50-amp if your budget can handle it. That's overkill, but not too much of an extra expense for 6-gauge wire instead of 8-gauge for 40-amp. Since I didn't see the need, could easily pull the heavier wire through conduit later, and we were installing 2 at the same time. My logic was the prediction of 7.2 kW from a 40-amp line (32-amp sustained draw) becoming the industry target for mass-market EV use. Sure enough, that is indeed what happened for level-2 charging (single-phase) here. It delivers roughly 200 miles of range from 8 hours of charging.

Lastly, your service-panel may help make the decision. If capacity is only 100 amps, you'll have to upgrade it anyway. Might as well get a quote for 2 lines for 2 outlets then. If it is 150 amps, support for 2 at the same time may limit lines to 40-amp lines. You can approximate load for the entire house using online calculators... how much an electric stove, dryer, etc. will draw while also running the A/C. There's lots to consider and expense savings by considering future need. Many with stand-alone garages end up just adding a second box instead.

Just holler if you need help interpreting what an electrician provides for options. Good luck.

 

Good post.
BUT there are a couple of things that are somewhat unique to your situation.

SO.....without any rebate incentive.....AND without any expectation of changing to an all electric vehicle any time in the foreseeable future, what does the average driver of a "plug in hybrid" really gain by moving up to 220 ? Especially if a substantial expense is involved ??

It just doesn't make sense to me.......at any level.

 

First, there's no such thing as 220 in the United States anymore. It's 240 volts now. That's important to know when you are doing calculations on what to expect.

Second, without that 240-volt connection, you'll miss out faster top-offs, drawing from the wall when preheating, and off-peak discounts. So even if you don't purchase a BEV for a very long time, those PHEV options won't be available.

Third, if you purchase a second PHEV, you're stuck having to do the install anyway. Making do with 120-volt charging is realistic in many circumstances for a single vehicle. But most garages don't have enough capacity (a second line) to support two.

 

Fourth, eventually when a friend who owns a BEV comes over to visit, it is super nice being able to offer them the ability to plug in for some type of meaningful recharge.

 

Sure. I know that some people revel in picking nits.

The old terms are still widely used by laypersons and even some in the industry too.
And the difference has NO relevance to this discussion.

Spending money on "what if's" is very often wasted.
Your explanation is full of "what if's".

Just wanting to give some additional information about the reality of the current situation.

 

My dad's friend was a master electrician. He was an old work "fishing" install expert. To him, installing sub-panels was part of his daily routine.

He always recommended 8 gauge wiring for Level 2 chargers. It is easier to work and less than six and will accommodate most all future needs and evin the next generation fast chargers anticipated approximately 10 years from now.

For 240 volts, you'd need an open position that connects to each of the two opposite bus bars on the panel. Don't even try this install without at least 200 amp service.

With 6 gauge wiring lower amperage breaker can be used until future needs required, but not vice versa with smaller gauge wiring.

 

Out of curiosity, was there ever a time in the US where 220 volt supply was a standard, and how long ago was that?

It's been 240 / 120 my entire professional life (or 208 Y 120 if you have three-phase service), and even then didn't seem like any kind of recent change.

If there were folks still saying 220 out of some sort of habit back then, they'd be really, really old now. For most folks saying it today, it's not even something they were right about when they started.

Sure, it's one of those "everybody knows what you mean" things.

Or does everybody? When we're writing posts on public forums, maybe the bar's a little higher than when shooting the breeze at the water cooler. I'd rather not have one of my posts be the place some young whippersnapper picks up the "220" idea and ends up being another person still saying it 50 years from now.

 

Google knows everything.
Try a Google search for "110VAC".
The answer that you seem to need likely is in there somewhere.
I didn't look past the first page.

 

I asked out of curiosity, but I've never been one of the folks casually misstating the voltage, because it was easy enough to learn what the standard actually was when I started, and it hasn't changed in all that time. So there might be others who "need" the answer more than I do.