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Persistent 12V battery problems

Discussion in 'Gen 2 Prius Care, Maintenance and Troubleshooting' started by Gwynngal, May 26, 2016.

  1. Gwynngal

    Gwynngal Junior Member

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    We have had a course of incidents of a drained 12 V battery with our 2007 Prius. Some have resulted from leaving the headlights on when passenger left car and driver waited 20 min or more with ignition off, while the headlights remained on. In the latest incident, I carefully turned off all lights, radio, etc, then locked car with fob (or possibly 'unlocked' it with the wrong button???). Upon returning a few hours later, the car was dead. I thought perhaps the key battery was dead although it had been recently replaced, so I stuck the key into the key receiver on the dash. This time the entire panel lit up including the triangle of death! No 'Ready' light! Being flustered, I'm not sure what I did to try to turn off the car: Press Power? Park?, tried to remove the key, which would not release. Finally got the key out, collected my wits and thought I'd try again. Pressed 'Power' - this time showed "no key". Reinserted the key and got the works with the "triangle of death", but then all the other lights went out and only the 'Check engine' light remained on. I assumed we would need to have the car towed to the dealer so I called my husband. When he arrived and had similar experiences, he decided to jump the battery & the engine started. Car subsequently starts and runs normally although it has been idling rough. We have had no less than 8 similar incidents, some with differing symptoms. We have had a number of 12V battery checks, and all have shown a strong battery. Note: Car has 87K miles, with complete main battery replacement by Toyota 3 months ago; 12 V battery was replaced prior to 40K mi. We like the Prius, but are unnerved with this car's unreliability. Any suggestions of what the problem might be? After previous unpleasant experiences, I really try to remember to lock the car with the fob when I park it whether at home overnight or just running into the store for a minute. Jeesh! Can an old dog learn new tricks? Can a car be possessed??? Any ideas???
     
  2. JC91006

    JC91006 Senior Member

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    If your 12v battery fails a load test, then it'll be the reason for your troubles. Have the battery tested and possibly buy a new one. With so many episodes of failed battery, there must be something wrong with it.
     
  3. dolj

    dolj Senior Member

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    Can you please elaborate on what you did to conclude the battery is "strong".

    I'm thinking the same as JC. My gut feel is that your 12 V battery is not strong and needs to be replaced.
     
  4. tony2ltr

    tony2ltr Member

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    The AGM batteries on these cars are severely undersized and of poor technology. I recommend installing an optima battery available at battery Mart (.com)
    It is a cylindrical AGM instead of prismatic and has the correct terminals for the Prius although some modification to the hold down may be necessary. I run a Lithium battery for my Auxiliary battery ( correct name), 7 years, no problem.
    The stock battery cannot sustain deep discharge more than a couple of times without plate damage. After that, you'll lunch the Dc-Dc converter (mounted to the underside of the heat sink of the Inverter, NOT separately sold) ,stressing it out by continuously charging a weak battery with high resistance (open cell) or a shorted cell (low resistance). Don't wait. Just change it. Otherwise the expense will be much higher.


     
    #4 tony2ltr, May 26, 2016
    Last edited: May 26, 2016
  5. Lucifer

    Lucifer Senior Member

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    The low mileage is good, but the present 12v is at least 5 years old, time for a new one, also get ready for the traction battery, get a new from Toyota dealer one, it's not mileage as much as age, with a new traction and quit killing the 12v you'll be good to great for another 5 years.
     
  6. wjtracy

    wjtracy Senior Member

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    I'd put in a new 12v...and try not to run it down. The Prius is very reliable but sometimes a used Prius has been put thru difficult circumstances by a prior owner.
     
  7. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    if you're gonna run it down, get an optima, they hold up better to draining. also, get a rechargeable jump pack and trickle charger. all the best!(y)

    btw, if the engine is running rough, you really should take it in for service. do you have it serviced regularly?
     
  8. S Keith

    S Keith Senior Member

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    EVERY time a 12V is fully drained, it is damaged. Period. The older the battery, the greater the damage.

    Get a new one and see if the problem continues.
     
    #8 S Keith, May 26, 2016
    Last edited: May 26, 2016
    Silver Pine Mica likes this.
  9. Eastside

    Eastside Member

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    Did the Toyota dealer give you a warranty on that main battery ?
    .
    A Toyota main, aka traction, battery should be good for 3 years or more.
    .
    Why not go back to the dealer. Have them check the main battery and rep[lace t he 12 volt while they are at it.
     
  10. Silver Pine Mica

    Silver Pine Mica Junior Member

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    You should never jump a prius as you can kill the inverter that costs about $4,000. You can however get a battery minder 1500 charger and an OBD port connector for it to charge your 12v battery while parked, gently with a desulphating feature. You can also check the 12v battery voltage by (starting with car off) pressing power, then holding display and turning the headlights on and off three times. Then press menu, then vehicle signal check. This displays the voltage, though it tends to be 0.3 volts lower because you are running the display. If this shows less than 12v then the 12volt battery could be your problem. Hit power one more time and stuff comes on, voltage should drop but not below 11v. Now hit power while pressing the brakes, this brings on the inverter, engine, and charging system. The voltage should go up to the normal charging voltage between 13.7 and 14.4. If it does not it means your inverter isn't working, very expensive. If it does work then you've dodged that bullet. You can now either turn the car off by hitting power or hold the display button for five seconds to reboot into ready mode.

    A battery minder charger plus OBD adapter (the battery tender brand adapter is compatable but battery minder makes them too) is cheaper than replacing the 12v and easier too. If the battery has a shorted cell you will still have to replace it, but regular maintenance charges with the battery minder should save you more in batteries than it costs for the charger. Any resting voltage less than 12.4 is bad for the batteries long term health, keeping it above that can more than double your 12v battery life.
     
  11. Gwynngal

    Gwynngal Junior Member

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    Well, I think we have been off track here assuming it was related to the battery and earlier experiences. I have a code reader which I figured out how to use and see a P0300 'Engine misfire detected' it states further that this can cause improper engine function, no start conditions, stumbles or hesitations. I had noticed some rough idling for a few days. Hopefully, it won't be too difficult to repair! It's not a great time to be looking for repair service during this holiday! I am somewhat relieved that it was (hopefully) not operator error! Thanks for all of your responses! I really appreciate the dedication of the folks who use this forum and share their knowledge! I was thinking I needed to be looking for a replacement for this car - which may still be the case. Unfortunately I have liked each of the next two reiterations of the Prius less than the previous! I can't hold out much longer!
     
    bisco likes this.
  12. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    maybe you have a bad coil, dirty throttle body or pcv.
     
  13. tony2ltr

    tony2ltr Member

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    Low voltage at the battery causes low voltage on the primary side of the ignition coils, and signal degradation for control. In turn, a short firing line and ripple cause insufficient propagation of the flame front making for hot and cold spots in the combustion chamber, leading to poor idle quality and misfire and higher rpm spark blowout or misfire.


     
  14. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    the battery remains 'strong'.
     
  15. Gwynngal

    Gwynngal Junior Member

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    Oh dear! I hope we have not done further damage! I did happen to look at the battery reading on my Dash phone app when I got back in my driveway after jump starting it & it read 13.9v. I couldn't get one while the issue was going on b/c it said the car was off and it transmitts information by Bluetooth. I never think of watching the car's display screens on the car anymore because I found them to be too distracting. Maybe I am not a person who should have a car like this? [Even though I really like it!] Does that deserve an eye roll???
     
  16. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    you need to test the battery voltage after everything has been off at least a few hours.
     
  17. Gwynngal

    Gwynngal Junior Member

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    Thanks, Bisco. We bought a 'Power Pack' the Toyota dealer recommended the first time we had a problem, but never found it worked when we tried using it to start the engine. Finally, I quit driving with my lights on! <That really helped>,<in the daytime of course!> I think we've had all the scheduled maintenence done, it was in the shop a good bit for a while there. We use synthetic oil that we get changed about every 5K, but not at the Toyota dealer. Our local dealer's service manager tries to send me out to buy a new car every time I'm there so I try to avoid her!
     
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  18. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    that's unfortunate. most people have good luck with them, as long as they keep them charged up.
     
  19. tony2ltr

    tony2ltr Member

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    That is a nonsense term. The force remains strong. There isn't one of those OEM batteries that were ever "strong" it is the biggest thing Toyota instructors complained about. They were always changing them at the training center. MERGED There is no way to test the battery to know for sure it's state of health without a midtronix tool or a simple load test as per the repair manual. Usually loaded to half it's capacity for 10-15 seconds, voltage shouldn't drop below 10-10.5 volts during the load. midtronix tester or a GR8 is the best way to test the battery. Both tools also measure internal resistance of the battery.