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P0401 code help needed

Discussion in 'Gen 3 Prius Care, Maintenance & Troubleshooting' started by 2010_Prius_Bro, Jun 13, 2023.

  1. 2010_Prius_Bro

    2010_Prius_Bro Junior Member

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    Hi everyone. I just bought a 2010 Prius with 210K miles.

    The previous owner told me that he has had problems with this P0401 code (EGR flow insufficient detected).

    What I have done:

    1. Cleaned out the EGR cooler
    2. Replaced with new EGR valve
    3. Cleaned out the EGR pipe
    4. Cleaned out the intake manifold and the 4 small ports
    5. Replaced with new MAP sensor and cleaned the MAF sensor
    6. Replaced the ECM

    Despite doing all this I still get the P0401 code after 15 minutes of driving.

    When I use my OBD program I consistently get an EGR bank 1 failure:

    Min: 0.99 kPa
    Value: 0.33 kPa (problem value)
    Max: 655.35 kPa

    The value is always under the minimum required value of 0.99 kPa

    What sensor detects this??? I thought it was the MAP sensor so I replaced it but apparently not.

    Any help or advice is much appreciated. I don't know what else to do.

    Inked2010 Prius EGR Bank 1 Failure.jpg
     
  2. ChapmanF

    ChapmanF Senior Member

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    You're right about what sensor is used for the detection, but then if a problem is detected, it doesn't necessarily mean the sensor is bad. The sensor is there to detect whether there's an EGR flow problem, so the sensor could be fine, doing its job, and telling you there's a problem.

    The number shown in your EGR flow test result is the amount the MAP reading went up (i.e. the amount intake manifold vacuum decreased) during a self test, when the car was decelerating, the engine pulling strong vacuum, and then the ECM opened the EGR valve somewhat, which lets exhaust into the manifold so the vacuum should be less.

    In a clean, properly functioning system, we usually see the MAP reading change by about 20 kPa when that happens. I cleaned mine (and replaced the valve, which had a rutted ski jump) when my change was more like 10 kPa.

    So your change of 0.33 kPa is definitely awful.

    So you could start by wondering whether your MAP sensor is working, but that's not a hard question. What is the MAP reading when the engine is off? Atmospheric pressure is about 101 kPa.

    What do you see when the engine is normally idling, not charging the battery or doing other work (you can use neutral to be sure of that)? That'll usually be somewhere in the ballpark of 28 kPa.

    If those are about the numbers your MAP sensor gives you, then the sensor is clearly A-OK, and you just need to find out why trying to open the EGR valve during deceleration changes the vacuum by such a piddly amount. Either you've still got something pretty clogged, or the valve isn't opening for some reason.

    Anybody done anything funny with the EGR wiring? There were some posts at one time from people doing engine swaps who recommended a rearrangement of pins, that turned out to only prevent the valve from working at all, but in a way the ECM could not detect.
     
  3. 2010_Prius_Bro

    2010_Prius_Bro Junior Member

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    Thanks for your reply Chapman F. I have read your post regarding the rutted ski jump. I don't think mine would be a problem because my EGR valve is relatively new. My MAP sensor is working as well because I had tested it in my 2014 Prius V and works within spec.

    The live readings of the atmospheric pressure when the car is in idle or when the engine is off are pretty much the same. They don't ever reach the minimum value of 0.99 kPa to pass the test.

    As far as the EGR wiring goes, I don't know. I did check the connector and all the pins look intact and doesn't look like it has been tampered with. I am not sure if an engine swap was done on this car but the previous owner was a foreigner and he was the third owner and barely had any idea of the history of the car. I did do a Carfax that came out clean. He owned it for 3 years and put just 12,000 miles on it. He has since left the country to go home.

    I'll have to take a closer look at the EGR wiring again. Don't really know where to start to diagnose the wiring. Any tips?
     
  4. mjoo

    mjoo Senior Member

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    Is the pipe on the exhaust manifold plugged?

    Have a bad MAP sensor?

    moto g power ?
     
  5. ChapmanF

    ChapmanF Senior Member

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    I can't quite make sense of what you have written here. No live reading of the MAP sensor should ever be near 0.99 kPa—that would be a very strong vacuum—so it seems like you might be thinking of live MAP readings in the same breath as EGR flow test results, which are different.

    So would it be possible to take a step back and just say what your live MAP readings are by themselves? With the engine off, it should be around 101 kPa, or whatever your weather channel says your local barometer reading is at the time.

    With the engine idling in neutral, I would expect something down in the ballpark of 28 kPa.

    Two readings like those would confirm that your MAP sensor is just fine.

    The EGR flow test result is not any live kPa pressure reading—it is one pressure reading subtracted from another.

    Say that your engine, during a fuel-cut deceleration, is pulling 10 kPa in the manifold, and then the ECM opens the EGR valve some, and the manifold rises to 30 kPa. The result of that test would be 30 − 10 = 20 kPa and that's what will be shown for your EGR flow test. That's very comfortably above the fail limit of 0.99, and indeed a difference around 20 kPa is what we normally see for a freshly-cleaned, functioning system.

    Your result looks more like, say, the engine in fuel-cut deceleration was pulling 10 kPa in the manifold, and trying to open the EGR valve made it rise to 10.33. Not gonna make the cut. (I'm not sure, but the 0.33 difference might even be within measurement error, and maybe the valve just didn't open at all.)
     
  6. 2010_Prius_Bro

    2010_Prius_Bro Junior Member

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    No carbon plugging throughout the EGR system.
    MAP sensor is good.
    Iphone IOS
     
  7. 2010_Prius_Bro

    2010_Prius_Bro Junior Member

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    Yeah, I think I am confused with the readings I am reporting to you. So sorry about that. They are coming off the top of my head which is not wise. I'll have to report it properly tonight when I get home so I don't waste your time in helping me evaluate this problem. I'll get the true readings with the engine off and when idling in neutral.
     
  8. Mr. F

    Mr. F Active Member

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    When you look at the connector that plugs into the valve, the wire that plugs into each terminal should be the same color as it is in the picture here.
    Make sure that the red and purple wires have not switched places.
     
  9. 2010_Prius_Bro

    2010_Prius_Bro Junior Member

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    Thanks Mr. F! That picture and schematic diagram will help me a lot in determining whether the wiring has been tampered or not. That thread is very extensive. Thanks for pointing me in that direction. Will update later when I get home. Thanks!
     
  10. Mendel Leisk

    Mendel Leisk EGR Fanatic

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    Has anyone mentioned the EGR valve ski jump (as @ChapmanF describes it), a little ramp gizmo inside which can wear out?

    @2010_Prius_Bro how was the carbon when you cleaned? With your miles I'd be paying close attention to the head gasket. Coolant level is stable? Seller "may" have poured in a stop-leak product.
     
  11. 2010_Prius_Bro

    2010_Prius_Bro Junior Member

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    Hello Mendel. ChapmanF did mention the EGR valve ski jump. I chose to ignore it because the previous owner recently put in a new EGR valve. He left me with his old EGR valve which I will open up to see what the condition of the cap is inside.

    I replaced the EGR cooler with a spare I had previously cleaned. The one I took out was about 50% clogged. I could still see light on the other end of the cooler. The EGR pipe was not bad and I brushed through the whole pipe to clean out all the residue. The IM was much worse. I did manage to clean most of the gunk and residue out of all the 4 small ports and throttle body area. I also replaced the PCV valve.

    Will be putting in a OCC in the very near future! So far no misfires or lowering of the coolant. I also just replaced the WS fluid in the CVT. It still had some pink color in it so I am suspecting that someone had replaced it in the past.
     
  12. Mendel Leisk

    Mendel Leisk EGR Fanatic

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    Sounds like prev owner cleaned EGR components but mighta missed intake manifold.
     
  13. 2010_Prius_Bro

    2010_Prius_Bro Junior Member

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    Yeah, he might have not cleaned it. He didn't have much knowledge about the car so I bet a shop had worked on just replacing the EGR valve. I am starting to suspect that this engine may not be the original one. I have not needed to add any oil after a month of usage. So this is not burning oil. The WS fluid still had some pink coloration when I replaced it. The EGR cooler was just about 50% clogged. No misfires. Just not what is typical for a 200K plus engine. Probably the 2nd previous owner had done a swap? Are there any other telltale signs that this engine was already swapped?
     
  14. 2010_Prius_Bro

    2010_Prius_Bro Junior Member

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    The reading I get when off is 99 kPa and 35 kPa when idling. Think my MAP sensor is working okay.
     
  15. 2010_Prius_Bro

    2010_Prius_Bro Junior Member

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    Mr. F. The picture of the EGR valve connector matches exactly with what I have. No pins have been swapped. More than ever, I don't know why I am still getting this P0401 code when the whole EGR circuit is clean and everything seems to be in working order.
     
  16. ChapmanF

    ChapmanF Senior Member

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    The most wonderful thing about physical systems doing physical things is there always turns out to be an explanation, and when you start from what you know about how it works and systematically measure and observe and rule out the possible causes, you find it.

    Confirming above that the MAP sensor is ok makes a good start. Now you know you can use it to observe other things.
     
  17. 2010_Prius_Bro

    2010_Prius_Bro Junior Member

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    ChapmanF, Now we know MAP sensor works, still don't understand why I am failing the EGR Bank 1 test as seen on my initial post. Any other suggestions?
     
  18. Mendel Leisk

    Mendel Leisk EGR Fanatic

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    I’ve read here, that the factory engine has a small plate with the car’s VIN, on the back side, near the right end of the engine. @rjparker has a pic of the location, and likely more details.
     
  19. 2010_Prius_Bro

    2010_Prius_Bro Junior Member

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    Mendel, I had no idea about that. I will certainly check that out! I looked it up and saw how to locate it from another post. Thanks for the info! I learned something new today!

    Engine VIN Prius 3rd Gen.jpg
     
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  20. rjparker

    rjparker Tu Humilde Sirviente

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    If the wiring has been disturbed, verify pins in the egr connector. Look for displaced or bent pins. Voltage check the two power inputs to the egr to verify power and the fuses feeding it. Possibly ohm out the wiring to the ecm. I might run the egr step test to determine if anything changes.

    Simplified:
    IMG_2191.jpeg
    Vin Plate Location Gen3
    Prius gen3 vin plate.jpeg

    Typical Vin Plate:
     

    Attached Files:

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