oh dear... ABG writer gets 26.1 mpg in CS mode.

Hi All,

Good comments. I just wonder if its the battery weight that is causing the problem here. While its battery pack is only 400 pounds heavier, the extra structure, and other issues (does this car have an Iron Block engine? Bigger Gears to handle the shock loads of the heavier car) gets it up to nearly 3800 pounds (750 pounds heavier than a Prius). With all that good stuff in that car, its incredible its doing so poorly on the CS mileage. There is something conceptually wrong here somewhere.

 

It looks wrong when out of context. A friend got 21mpg in a 2010 Prius test drive. We know it can do much better. The Volt trip computer calculation that incorporated the EV use and gas trips along with the sporty jaunt reported 54mpg.

 

34 CS mode, that is what is wrong.
Saying 8 kwh to drive 40 miles in EV, and then admitting it is actually 10.4 kwh a few weeks before the car is to be produced is wrong, too. Wrong that is, if GM was hoping to have any legitimacy.

 

I get 55mpg all the time in a car that costs nearly $20k less! What's the point of the Volt again?

 

GM does not care about legitimacy. The people at the top of GM care only about big salaries and bonuses, and since the government will not let GM go under, all they have to do is make sure they have good lobbyists in D.C. to keep it that way.

The point of the Volt is to allow the GM bigwigs to pretend that they are "doing something" for the environment, after the public-relations fiasco of crushing the EV1. "We tried. We really tried. But the public just won't buy an electric car." Of course, that's going to sound pretty hollow when Nissan is selling the Leaf faster than they can build them.

 

And how many miles can that car go using zero gasoline?

The Volt is a niche vehicle. Drive a lot of miles between charges, and it doesn't make sense. If the majority of your miles are within the EV range, then you'll be using very little gas. While we still have to see how it will perform in the dead of a real winter, most reports are getting farther than the original 40 mile range.

I agree, a pure EV would likely work for those people, but there is still much concern over range and getting stranded. The range spread of the Leaf would work for me most time, but then it might leave stranded half way home. 'Let's see how far I can get' isn't a game I want to play in winter. So I'd have to have second vehicle to use for, perhaps, half the year. A Leaf and a second car may cost as much as one Volt, but then there is insurance and parking to consider.

The Volt isn't the perfect solution, but those that it will work, it will be fine car.

 

Damn you and your rational thinking interrupting a perfectly good hate thread.

Have the words "I found it surprisingly quick, agile and fun" ever been used together in one sentence in a Prius review? Having driven the Volt twice and now a one week old owner of a new 2010 Prius, I think that, other than being hybrids, the two cars aren't competitors so there's no real reason to bash it but....

now :focus:

 

Since Volt was portrayed as a "game changer" all along, it's hard for many to accept that this generation is really only a niche. GM continues to push mainstream appeal, but we know the EV drive... as appealing as it is... cannot be justified for that steep of a price.

It's really too bad they didn't scale back the motor & battery size to better match consumer price expectations.

That's why some of us like the sub-pack approach Toyota is taking with the PHV. Since each works independently, adding or subtracting them is no big deal. It's how Toyota could eventually sell the PHV side-by-side with the no-plug model. They'd take advantage of high-volume cost-savings by just offering the plug as a package choice.
.

 

I for one do not hate the Volt, although I consider it *way* too expensive for what it delivers. I do hate GM, and Volt fans tend to be idiots.

 

Unfortunately, IMO there is no user-commute-profile for which the Volt is the best solution.
Unless you drive without fuel cost/impact concerns. But then, why having bought a plug-in-hybrid in the first place?
Doesn't make sense. Even for an american citizen that likes national manufacturing/production.

The only way of getting out of this charade is really hitting (very) good MPG while in CS mode. Other hybrids do it without the cost of the batteries. And seems that Prius PHV does it very well with the cost/weight of batteries.

 

At least very few. I could do it on the way to work and back but if I'm only doing these kinds of distances in a Volt why would I pay that much anyway? If you're doing any kind of real mileage you'll be extremely hard pressed to keep the batteries doing most of your driving.

I have a hard time telling how biased I am against it now and how much that clouds my objectivity but this vehicle just seems like a half-assed jack of all trades and master of none. It's so overwhelmingly inferior compared to the Prius (smaller, crazy way more expensive, drinks far more gas) when in gas, and when in electric it's overwhelmingly inferior to the leaf (smaller even than the Leaf, way more expensive, less than half the range).

Its only realistic niche is for one-car families that want as much an EV vehicle as they can get without being tethered to a plug. For a two-car just get the Leaf and you're good to go most days, then use your gas vehicle for long trips.

If it was $10k cheaper it would be a real competitor in my eyes, against the volt or prius.

 

Until there is real world data out, we won't now how good the Leaf will actually be for most days. The one range spread I read has the potential of stranding me on the way home from work. It is cheaper than the Volt, and I could use my wife's car on the days I know it make it, but what if my wife needs her car that day, or I just misjudged the conditions?

The Volt's price is steep. But until the price of lithium batteries come down, or the NimH patent expires, that's going to be true of any car with an EV range that puts a dent in most people's commute.

 

True, if your daily commute pushes the low end of the Leaf's range (75mi), then it isn't the solution for you. But the Volt may not be either, since your overall mpg's would then likely be down in Prius territory! You would use the same amount of gas, plus the cost and pollution involved in charging the Volt's battery!

 

Invalid question. How many miles can the Volt go using zero electricity and zero gasoline?

Prius doesn't have to be plugged in so who cares how many miles it can go without gasoline.

Leaf has the "limp home" feature and it shows you the breakdown of electrical consumption for you to manage / ration the battery charge. It could be fun or it could be stressful - up to you.

I doubt Leaf buyers do not already have a car. Buying the Volt and sell your current ride is a bigger hassle than buying the Leaf and keep the existing car.

Great point about the extra insurance and parking issue but you split your miles between two cars - less depreciation and you have a backup in case one breaks down.

 

+1

 

The Volt proved that Toyota was right about lithium battery for not being ready due to the price. Everyone was ganging up on Toyota for stating the reality 3-4 years ago.

The good news is that we are almost there. Within 2 years, both Ford and Toyota are coming out with tri-metal lithium battery that lasts 2-3 times more cycles and double the range. They will have a true automotive grade battery, if used in PHV application, it can easily qualify for eAT-PZEV (10 years / 150k miles).

 

Very true. Most people would overlook the cost and carbon footprint of charging the Volt's battery.

I am all for electric mile but it depends on how it is used. Volt's initial 25-50 electric miles will be lugging around 9.3 gallon of gasoline, internal combustion engine and related components (cooling, exhaust, etc...). They should add up to at least 500 lbs.

This means the Volt in EV mode will be primarily carrying gasoline powertrain rather than people.

 

I think these "reviews" that keep rolling out will prove pretty accurate. After all, these are final production models being tested in real world conditions by people who drive like you and me.

It looks like ~80mpg will be the overall combined mileage. Thats 60% better than the Prius. Not bad, but range anxiety is still an issue no doubt because without that charger, it's a pathetic 26.1 mpg.

 

To be fair, it's simply impossible to give an MPG rating to a car like the Volt without caveatting what it means. There is no single MPG number for it and its mileage is two things: 1) infinity, using no gas for each mile followed by 2) [once battery used up] its *real* MPG (i.e. miles per *gallon* of gas).

It really will require some additional attention by buyers so they can figure out its costs against their intended use, something that these days can more or less be done with a quick glance comparing two simple MPG numbers. It's made easier by the Leaf, though. You have infinity MPG always. Until you have zero because you have no power left