New Prime or Ioniq 5

One consideration is that PP may not get a tax break comes 2022, whereas Ioniq5 is likely to receive at least a $7500 tax break with a new BBB incentive. I am not sure what Toyota will offer on rebates for PP comes 2022, but likely to remain little. So, the difference may not be as large as you are thinking.

 

There's different options and range on the Ioniq 5. So unsure which battery pack and options you are leaning towards.

Factored the possible IRS credit? I don't see the 2022 Ioniq 5 listed on this site (last update Dec 6, 2021): IRC 30D New Qualified Plug-In Electric Drive Motor Vehicle Credit | Internal Revenue Service.

Oddly the 2022 Kia EV6 is listed to receive the full $7500 credit.

I would hold on to the reservation if the EV infrastructure (and power lines) in your area and places you go to are reliable. The Ioniq 5 battery is covered for 10/yr or 100K miles.

The Ioniq 5 RWD and smaller battery pack (220 mile range) is comparable in price to PP XLE and Limited after IRS incentive (if your tax situation qualifies). Any other spec/options after that then you have to compare it against the RAV4 Prime.

 

Deescalate, get son a used Corolla or Civic?

 

It sounds like you're having doubts if the Ioniq 5 is the way to go. From the financial perspective, you said you'll be scraping by (I assume to make payments) if you go with the Ioniq 5 . . . will the vehicle provide you enough joy to justify the sacrifice?

 

I have also been thinking about upgrading to an EV, but it is not easy right now. Last year I was seriously considering the RAV4 Prime or the Tesla Model Y. But Toyota made it impossible to buy one here and every month or two Tesla kept raising their price a couple of thousand dollars. Now there are four EVs supposedly coming available next year that will have the size and mileage (250-300 miles per charge) that I want. They are the Ioniq 5, EV6, Toyota bZ4X, and Nissan ARIYA. However, I am guessing that by the time they are available, both Nissan and Toyota will have made enough Leafs and Primes that the $7500 rebate will be gone.
I and my wife love our PP and with only 21K miles on it there is no reason to upgrade to a 2022 version. My plan is to replace both my 4Runner and the wife's Lexus ES300 with the EV and keep the PP also.

 

it seems to e the decision is strictly one of desire. if the actual price difference is 20k after all credits and rebates (and i don't think you will know until you get quotes) or whatever the difference, it is about two vastly different vehicles, and which one you like more.
i like the ionique, but would never consider buying in this market.

 

It will most likely have a $5,000 to $10,000 markup from the Steeler ships. Kiss it off, go with the Prius Prime
.

 

That's basically a gimmick, something you can't expect to really take advantage of. Look around on PlugShare. How many DCFC in your particular area can you actually find that deliver more than just 50 kW? The hope for this generation of plug-in (the next 4 to 5 years) will be finding 150 kW stations popping up nearby. Faster service is quite a bit more expensive. Think about the hardware involved.. How much are you willing to pay for a charging session and idle fees?

Consider the industry itself. There are fundamental challenges to address still. How exactly is a F-150 Lightning with a trailer supposed to plug in? Most DCFC don't have any means of accommodating a vehicle towing a trailer... which is when the pickup will certainly want to recharge. There is no standard means of billing or payment either. Even finding the stations is difficult, since there's nothing common for location or signs. This is very much the pioneer days for EV.

To be further along with infrastructure and support would be wonderful, but it simply isn't realistic. For confirmation of status, ask those who use public charging-stations about proper etiquette. How many different answers do you think you'd get for dealing with getting ICE'd or someone with a finished session blocking the spot? What about a vehicle charging slowly using the fastest charger? When is the appropriate SOC to stop at when others are waiting?

 

I have had my PP for more than four years and have never charged it other than at home with a level 1 charger. If I get a pure EV I will upgrade to level 2 in my garage and probably never use a public charging station more than half a dozen times a year. With an EV and a PP I will have choices.

 

I just started a new thread to discuss the real-world cost of EV charging.
Real-World Electric Vehicle Fueling Costs May Surprise New EV Drivers | PriusChat

 

Still have not seen one in the wild.

Nor have i seen a Rav4 Prime in the wild either. I inquired to my dealer and was basically told not a chance in heck are they even getting one.

 

I saw "one", some lady dropping a child off at a neighbourhood daycare. Me and the missus were walking the dog. I was practically dancing. Nobody else seemed to notice...

 

That's the same straw man that people used to throw at electric car owners a decade ago. Lack of infrastructure. Chicken and the Egg. Yes, at one time, people argued against steam trains because there weren't enough water towers along the way. Enough with the hand-wringing - these are just growing pains.
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Rav4 Prime: 302hp. FASTEST 4 door Toyota in production. About as fast as the 4 cylinder Supra.

45~ish all electric miles with a charge. AWD. lots of room. Fast. Love the styling especially the off road look in midnight black.

Problem: it’s well over $40k and close to $45k for the top of the line with all the trimmings. Yes you get another tax credit, but that’s some *serious coin* considering what else you could get in that price range. I suppose to some it’s not that expensive but you are basically getting a huge Prius Prime with AWD, longer EV range, and a turbo charger for $10k more. I wonder how many miles you’d have to drive for the 45 all electric miles in a year to make it worth it to spend $8k-$10k over the regular Rav4 Hybrid, or even the regular Rav4. Must be A LOT.

 

Always? What sounds good on paper requires real-world data to quantify worth.

How much are you willing to pay for the faster service depends upon what the true gain equates to.

This graph I captured from a video gives moment for pause, a good reason to seek detail.

 

You summed it very well, this is my thought pattern as well. For me, the RAV4 Prime is the “want”, while the Prius Prime is the “need” (family of 4 + our cocker spaniel, don’t need excessive cargo except for travel, so PP is fine for 97% of my driving); However the RAV offers lots of perks the PP doesn’t (more power, space, EV range, panoramic roof, cooled & memory seats, etc) but at a significant cost… I like to buy my vehicles well equipped and keep them a longer time, and there is a $19K difference between the respective loaded models in Canada (before rebates), which is a lot of coin, particularly if you are in a province that only has the federal incentive, like me in Ontario… However, that may change after the election in 2022.

Back on topic of this thread, though the Ioniq 5 certainly looks like an interesting vehicle (a bit too sci-fi in my opinion, like the Cybertruck, ut certainly unique), I am not sure I would go EV-only yet, outside of a Tesla with the large SC network. However YMMV, my criteria on basing this personal decision would be the following:

1. Do you have a reasonable charge setup at home? (Private garage, L2, etc)
2. Is the L3 charging availability acceptable in the extended range of travel that would be needed on a somewhat regular basis?
3. Comfort level with renting a gasser/hybrid when long trips are needed where the EV would be inconvenient for charging? (Most rentals are usually base models, which kinda sucks IMO…)

In my opinion, I don’t believe that Southern Ontario I has built enough reliable infrastructure to go EV-only yet (except Tesla). We were on track to get there before the Conservatives came into power in 2018 and shut provincial EV incentives down, which has dramatically slowed EV growth, not surprisingly. Thanks Doug… (The Libs are talking about bringing them back if they get back in later this year... )

For our family, the Leaf + PiP is perfect solution, as we have the EV for local driving and is my wife’s DD, and we use my PiP for travel with convenience charging, and both cars benefit from our ChargePoint L2. That said, I can count on one hand how many times we have used an L3 with the Leaf in almost 6 years of ownership; about 97% of our charging is done at home, the only public charging is done at various retail locations just because it is free (and is usually hunted by me since I am always looking for free charges … thanks IKEA! ). The Leaf has never travelled more than about 75km from home.

Anyway, for me, when it comes time to change vehicles in ~1 year (hopefully after the market craziness, and the next gen PP is unveiled) I will see what my needs and budget look like at that time.

 

I have driven the ionic 5 yesterday for a couple of hours. It is a fantastic car. I mean, it's the most comfortable, quiet car that I have ever driven. I have owned jaguars, Merc, audi, acuras and more. The issue is, with the ionic, range anxiety. I had 61 percent battery which gave me, 235 kms of range with the heat on 22 deg, in eco mode with snow traction on, and heated seats and wheel on as well. tick up to the "normal drivng mode" that went down to 217. move to sport it was 189. There are days I will click off 1000km in a day. The full electric is still NOT where it needs to be.
I am hoping that toyota will redesign the prime vehicles to have a larger capcity battery so that the PP will get about 150km to a charge, and the rav prime gets 200. That will be the sweet spot for most people. 1000km range from a tank of gas, and 150km on electric only for most daily useage.
I just could not stop looking at the battery level and range going down every time i do something to the ionic.