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Nav System lobotomy

Discussion in 'Gen 2 Prius Audio and Electronics' started by Benevento, Jan 4, 2005.

  1. Benevento

    Benevento New Member

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    We recently bought a 2005 Prius, and drove it from Northern Michigan to Florida and back. The Nav system seemed very accurate. But what I found EXTREMELY frustrating is that it gives itself a lobotomy every time the car moves.

    I know this is supposed to be a '"safety" feature, but I think it is unnecessary and unsafe. Consider:

    1. On a trip like ours, we mostly use freeways. Two common questions are, how far is the next rest area or gas station (and perhaps how far to the one after that)? With the "DEST" POIs turned on, it would be just a few taps to get a list of the distances and directions to rest areas or gas stations. With this alleged "safety" feature, it appears you have to either (a) speak "rest areas" and see icons (only on the .5 mile scale), or (B) stop the car to get real information. Of course, it is illegal and dangerous to stop a car on the freeway, but you have to stop the car in order to find out where you can stop the car!!!

    The (a) process is dangerous and counterproductive too. If you want to find the next to rest areas or gas stations, you have to be on the .5 mile scale (or the icons disappear). You might have to hit the screen 10 or 12 times to find the next two rest areas (watching the screen intently all the while). This is obviously much less safe than if they just allowed one to get a list of rest areas through the "DEST" menu.

    2. In addition, of course, I usually travel with my wife, and obviously one of us isn't driving. The Nav screen is not angled toward the driver, but available to the passenger. Why can't the passenger access the POI categories, etc. under "DEST" menu? What's unsafe about that?

    Also, I might add that one can't change map areas on the fly. So when you go from, say, N.Carolina to Virginia or Pennsylvania to Ohio, the NAV system gives itself another lobotomy until you stop the car (again, illegal and dangerous on the freeway) to change the map. And it's only three buttons (DEST, change, select area). I hit a lot more buttons than that just trying to get the heater to work! It's crazy to disable that feature.

    Anyone know how to disable these unsafe "safety" features and make the NAV system actually work all the time? I hope it's just a menu setup selection I overlooked.

    Norm
     
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  2. betshsu

    betshsu Member

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    Okay, this is not going to be super-helpful, because I can't recall off the top of my head how to do any of these things, but...

    There is a way to display POIs without going through the DEST screen. I think it's from the main map menu. You're just limited to a few categories, but the most common ones--gas station, restaurant, rest area (I think?), etc. There may also be a way to change these default categories, I'm not sure. But you still have to be within the scale to see POIs, and you can't get any more info unless you tap on the particular icon to get its exact info.

    In freeway mode, there is a way to display the upcoming exits on the left hand side, and anything that may exist at that exit (gas station, rest stop). This is not always super-accurate though--when I drove from Nashville to Austin, there would sometimes be stuff at exits that did not show up on the upcoming exit screen.

    I'm not sure about changing regions as you drive--I know in my drive, I did have to switch areas, I just can't recall if we did it manually or if the car did it for us.

    There is the "speed-sensor" defeat to allow the passenger to temporarily access grayed out areas--you can find out how to do it in the knowledge base. This is a modification you have to do yourself to your car. Many people believe it would make sense for Toyota to have enabled a system that allowed the passenger to access features when the car is in motion (perhaps detecting a passenger based on weight), but alas, this is what we've got.

    If someone else refutes what I've said above, they're probably right... I don't use the Nav system heavily, and I still have a difficult time navigating its menus, etc.
     
  3. Ms. Piggy

    Ms. Piggy New Member

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Benevento\";p=\"61318)</div>
    Well, I always find the the big signs on the side of the freeway work really well for finding rest areas and gas stations ;-)

    But seriously, I don't think it's that big a deal to pull over (or off, in case of the freeway) if you really really have to know right now where the next gas station or rest area is. Honestly, what's the difference in knowing where it is when you're 10 miles away or 1 mile away? It's not like it's going to get any closer. And if you're just trying to figure out how far out you can push that next fill-up, well, that's just foolish in the Prius, when Toyota specifically warns you about running out of gas.

    Driving distractions cause accidents, and adjusting the nav system by pushing buttons is definitely a distraction. Toyota is not interested in being sued by anyone who is involved in an accident where the driver was trying to operate the nav system by hand while the vehicle was moving.
     
  4. bruceha_2000

    bruceha_2000 Senior Member

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    I don't know how I did it but yesterday I was entering destinations WHILE MOVING?!?!?

    I had set my final dest while stopped. The point originally found by address was clearly on a street parallel to the one I knew I wanted so I reset it by scroll/touch on the screen.

    After I started off I realized that it was going to take me farther into the 'congestion zone' than necessary before turning for a parallel road. I added an intermediate destination by scroll/touch near the parallel road by the cross street I wanted. Then I figured out I missed it by a bit and reset it, choosing 'Replace' rather than Add. I was thinking it would replace the first dest I would hit but it replaced my final destination (which I guess DOES make sense).

    I re-added my final destination positioning the map by scroll/touch using Replace. Then I added an intermediate dest on the major parallel road just north of the cross street I wanted to take.

    All while driving 50 MPH. This I DO not understand.
    It must have been a good Karma day. I guessed about where the house would be on the road, never having been there. I was driving slowing trying to pick out house numbers on the curb side mailboxes and when I pulled up in front of the one I was hunting: "You have arrived at your destination" :)
     
  5. efusco

    efusco Moderator Emeritus
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    THIS is probably what you want. Be sure to read the comments and do a search on PC as we've improved the install by doing it with the speed sensor wires behind the vent cover to the right of the MFD. Doing it that way you can also access the wire that lets you disable the speed sensor for the Bluetooth phone system so that you can access the full phonebook or manually dial while the car is moving.

    I'd like to update the article, or for someone else to do so, but I need a volunteer near me to let me rip their car apart and start cutting wires!!! Who wouldn't jump at a chance like that!? :roll:
     
  6. Benevento

    Benevento New Member

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    Thanks all. As usual, you've all been very helpful. I did read Ed's article in the KB, and I will probably do it some day when I get too frustrated with an expensive Nav system that disables half its functions when moving. But the car is so new, I'd hate to screw it up so soon. I liked Betshsu's suggestion for Toyota to allow full function if someone is the the passenger seat. Sensible compromise.

    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Ms. Piggy\";p=\"61338)</div>
    I understand about distractions and the fear of law suits, but my point is this "safety" restriction makes the car LESS safe, not more safe. It is sometimes important to know how far a gas station or rest stop is, especially in rural areas where they may be far apart (and especially if you have kids in the car).

    I can get a list of all the closest POIs in 5 taps when the car is stopped through DEST. But when the car is moving I have to push the speak button, say "rest area", and if the Nav is on the 16 mile scale, it takes 5 taps just to get to the .5 scale where the icons show. Then it takes about 1 tap per 1.25 miles to move the cursor along your route, so to find a POI 25 miles away, it would take 20 taps or more (assuming you knew which direction it was).

    I think drivers should be responsible for their driving and not sue manufacturers if they misuse something. But if someone would sue for being distracted by 5 taps, wouldn't they be even more likely to sue for being required to make 25 taps, especially since the easier, shorter, safer method had been disabled by Toyota?

    And Bruceha_2000 is quite right. It is perfectly possible to tap all over the place to find out how far you are from where you are to some point of interest, move over a road and set that as an intermediate destination, etc. We (meaning my wife while I was driving) used it extensively on our trip, and it takes lots of tapping! Why isn't Toyota afraid of being sued for that?

    Again, thanks to all, and I appreciate your help and inputs.
    Norm
     
  7. Benevento

    Benevento New Member

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    Sorry, I meant Evan, not Ed.
    Norm
     
  8. Bill60546

    Bill60546 Member

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    After 8 months am getting used to the navi system. However, IMHO, Honda's is better. Period. Its simply easier to use. And yes I've read the manual.
    Maybe at our next meetup we could have a navi class?
     
  9. TonyPSchaefer

    TonyPSchaefer Your Friendly Moderator
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    A guy at work just bought a new Acura. Just under the NAV screen is a half-circle 'thingy' that he uses to move the screen around. Once he's recentered on a desirable spot, he pushes the thingy and that point is added to the route. Pretty slick and addresses the "...hit the screen 10 or 12 times to find the next two rest areas..." issue.
     
  10. Hotfoot2

    Hotfoot2 New Member

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    I am just about ready to not use the nav system at all, and use my Gamin system which will at least allow me to change settings while I am moving. This was a bad investment in a bad system.
     
  11. victor

    victor New Member

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    Matter of opinion. It is expensive, but I think its a good investment and the system works very well.

    Sure its a pain that some things are disabled when driving, but that was the same on my old TNS200 system and a VDO system I had.
     
  12. Benevento

    Benevento New Member

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    Yes, it's a matter of opinion, but I agree with Hotfoot2. My Garmin is twice as good and cost one tenth as much. It actually works. All the time.

    I'd STRONGLY recommend that potential Prius buyers not order or accept a car with the Nav system unless they have thoroughly checked out how it works (and how it doesn't work).

    For that matter, I didn't order the Nav system. But Toyota is apparently so customer-unfriendly (at least when it comes to the Prius) that I had to take it with the Nav system, or I wouldn't have gotten a Prius at all. Knowing what I know now, I'm not sure I made the right decision in accepting the car.
     
  13. hdrygas

    hdrygas New Member

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    I agree with much of what is said above with one reservation. Garmin is just for Windoz users. If you are willing to put up with a lot of pain it can be forced to work with a Mac but I would guess most Mac users would not make the effort. We are a strange lot we expect things to work. Did you here that Bill Gates Windoz computer froze up on him during his last public presentation ( http://www.applelinks.com/pm/more.php?id=3...3114_0_1_0_Mar) on the "digital lifestyle". One wonders where he "borrowed" that term from. I don't recall Steve having simular problems during his Keynote addresses.
     
  14. glscheil1

    glscheil1 New Member

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    I just got the Nav. update. Now, how do I find out which version they put in?
     
  15. tag

    tag Senior Member

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    1) Press the "Map DVD" icon in the upper right section of your screen.

    2) Physically check the disk (located under the driver's seat)
     
  16. rflagg

    rflagg Member

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    As far as "Finding nearest rest stop/gas station/etc", there is an icon to display this on the map screen when you're on the freeway - and it's not too well known about. When in the nav screen that displays your current position, you'll see the icon that lets you change the display - pushing it gives you options to show half main nav/half next turn, etc. On there, when on the freeway, there's a freeway/highway icon (the little shield) - touching this icon will give you half screen of your current location, while the other half will give you how many miles til the next 3 rest stops, including listing the gas stations, food stops, etc. Touch the icon say for gas at the next exit, and you can add it to your route with ease. Have your wife try it next time you're on the freeway. Hope this helps!

    -m.
     
  17. Benevento

    Benevento New Member

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    Thanks, rflagg. You are correct about the screen you mention, and we have used it. Except it doesn't show the "next three rest stops;" it shows the next three freeway exits, which could be a total of 6 miles while the next rest area is 45 miles away. I know one can take a leak at a gas station or MacDonalds, but we hate to do that if we aren't buying anything.

    Also, it only shows the next three exits, and doesn't scroll up to show the ones after that. Also, of course, it doesn't work if you are not on a freeway. And we have found its icons and information to be highly inaccurate...maybe businesses have to pay to be listed or something?

    Yes, it's a good feature, but still doesn't do what my Garmin did (and I could program the Garmin from the warmth of my house instead of sitting in a car in 10 degree weather...or 10 below, which is what it is supposed to be here in the next few days!).

    Again, thanks for your input. I appreciate all the help you guys provide on this site.
    Norm