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Mud Flaps--Initial Impressions

Discussion in 'Gen 2 Prius Accessories & Modifications' started by efusco, Apr 29, 2004.

  1. efusco

    efusco Moderator Emeritus
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    I installed my mud flaps, purchased from ToyotaTown (a PriusChat Sponsorer) 2 days ago and already am able to give some opinions/observations that I think might interest others considering buying these.

    Appearance: They look nice, quite OEM, non-intrusive and don't signficiantly break up the natural lines. It would be nice if they were smooth/convex on both sides, but it's not a big issue and the cost differential is probably signficant.

    Effectiveness: Not bad. They definately reduce/eliminate the bad spray that occurs right behind the wheel well area. I'd hoped they would stop the spray from hitting the rear-view mirrors, but they don't, that comes off much higher than the mud guards go.

    Affect on Mileage: Unfortunately I think this is going to be more significant that was previously reported. I don't have enough miles to say exactly what the percentage or absolute mileage impact will be, but I have seen a DEFINATE downturn in my mileage over the past 2 days that is not attributable to any change in weather, driving habits, route, weight carried or any other changes in the car. At 370 miles into the tank I showed a 58.3mpg average for the tank--I had not dipped below 58.0 at any time during that period. Since adding the mud flaps I've seen a steady slow decline in the displayed average to 57.7 at 425 miles. So, over a 55 mile stretch of driving my mileage has been reduced by over 1/2 mpg. Over a tank of gas I have to think it's going to be even more.

    Conclusions: Draw your own, and at $45 for a set of these plus an hour of your time to install them it's worth buying them and making up your own mind.

    For me, I'm leaving them on, at least for now. If I find that I can't get my mileage up to where I think I can/should be and I'm not satisfied with the job they're doing I'll take them back off of the car (should be very easy and take maybe 15 min to do that). I have to say that I'm concerned about the reduced gas mileage, esp. after becoming so optimistic over the past 1000 miles of driving that I could consistantly get in the 55-58mpg range. I don't mean to discourage anyone else from getting the flaps, their benefits probably outweigh the loss of performance, but I wanted to make folks aware of that impact.
     
  2. DonDNH

    DonDNH Senior Member

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    What with all the gee whiz bang things that Toyota did build into the car, a set of mud flaps that extend and retract into the fender well at the touch of a button on the dash would have been a nice addition.
     
  3. eak354

    eak354 Member

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    i like em. i didnt notice much dip in my mpg since i was averaging around 44mpg to start with (mostly city driving). after a downpour, i washed my car, and alas! none of the usual mud, grime and tar i'd get without the mud flaps! 8) well worth it!
     
  4. twindad

    twindad New Member

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    Touch of a button? How primitive! I would expect it to measure flying mud in real time, compensate for wind direction & speed, & deploy automatically!
     
  5. HTMLSpinnr

    HTMLSpinnr Super Moderator
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    And for those of us who are a bit more feature conservative - it's just one more thing to break down the road :-P
     
  6. mikepaul

    mikepaul Senior Member

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    Yea, the only time I see 50MPG+ is on an extended trip. The average right now is hovering at 47.4MPG, so if it drops to 46.9MPG after I install the soon-to-be-delivered flaps, I won't cry...
     
  7. bookrats

    bookrats New Member

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    Now there's a man who's had lots of experience with technology! You haven't had to write Windows applications, have you? :D
     
  8. Bill60546

    Bill60546 Member

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    My silver 9 looks just fine with the mudflaps. And anything that keeps road salt, gravel, rocks, etc. off the car is well worth $45. Afterall, a clean rust free Prius is a happy Prius! :multi:
     
  9. efusco

    efusco Moderator Emeritus
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    Just to add a little update, the mileage hit is real and it's going to be pretty significant. I've dropped from 58.3mpg @ 360miles in the tank to 57.4 at 480 miles into the tank...and I've been driving very carefully to keep it that high!

    Again, I haven't decided if that will be important enought to me to take the flaps off yet, I'll probably give it a couple more tanks before I do decide, but if one of your 'big things' is squeezing every possible mile you can out of a gallon of gas then be aware that this will affect that mileage. And that makes sense, let's face it, if those little grooves in the roof and the rings on the wheels affect aerodynamics then adding 4 1 square foot air scoops to the car will definately have an impact.

    FWIW on a more techy note, I've found it much harder to 'dead band' with the flaps, I can't get into a no-arrows coast and sustain it nearly as long as I could before. The increased drag forces me to engage the ICE again much sooner than I had to before.
     
  10. Bill60546

    Bill60546 Member

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    Evan:
    Based on your figures, thats a 1.7% decrease in MPG or 98.3% of non-impact. I wouldnt exactly refer to it as "real and significant". Please think about the total cost of ownership (TCO) vs MPG. We may pay 1.7% more in gas costs but save in body repairs, rust prevention, improved resale value, reduced frequency in car washes, etc. That adds up too.
    At 12K miles per year, $1.85/gallon, 50MPG average, (remember I like good old fashioned round figures) that adds up to roughly $7.54 in incremental annualized gas costs; proverbial peanuts. A single car wash here costs $13. Over an ownership period of say 5 years thats about $35 in gas costs. Now the real question; do you believe that at the end of that 5 year period you will spend atleast $35 or more fixing rust spots, tar removal, etc. Mud flaps are a no-brainer. (But then, I've been accused of that before! :mrgreen: )
    The real money saver for body work will be the body side moldings. Am still waiting for Steve to confirm cost and availability.
     
  11. Smooth Operator

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    If you decide to take the flaps off, I'll be interested to see the result. My fuel efficiency actually improved after I had the flaps installed. I didn't attribute the improvement to the flaps, but the flaps didn't appear to have a signficant adverse effect.
     
  12. seasalsa

    seasalsa Active Member

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    Funny, I have experienced the same thing. My mileage has contimued to improve since installing the mud flaps.

    I haven't commented before as I thought the good doctor was pulling our collective legs. however it sounds like he is serious about the negative effects of the mud flaps. Perhaps the flaps he got from Toyotatown differ significantly from the Canadian flaps on my car.

    It will be interesting to see if his performance improves when he removes the flaps.
     
  13. efusco

    efusco Moderator Emeritus
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    Thanks for the great comments. The flaps are, for the time being staying on. I like the look, the decreased spray, etc. I'm not 100% convinced that they'll really ever save me anything when it comes to rust and such (I think those body panels are plastic anyway), but I do see the positive affect of the panels.

    I just wanted to give a little equal time to the aerodynamic/fuel economy impact.

    I now have almost 6800 miles of driving in on my Prius. I've adjusted and changed my driving style a number of times over the last 6+ months and only over the last 1000-1500 miles have I really gotten a 'feel' for the car. I can feel when I'm in the 'dead-band' even when I'm not on the Energy screen. I can tell when to back off the pedal pressure and feather into stealth. I know this probably sounds like BS voodoo stuff to some of ya (probably related to that Prius Cult we've been involved in), but I promise, you're going to find it as well when you've gotten enough miles in.

    Anyway, much of my sense that the mud-flaps are having an impact comes from a change in the response I'm getting from the car in those very subtle situations where without flaps dead-banding would work, but with them there's too much drag to sustain the speed. I drive, as most people do, the exact same route over and over. I know when to back off the gas and when I can feather into stealth, those parameters changed with the flaps...I can feel it and see it on the speedometer and mpg read out for individual sections that I drive.

    Still, I'm gonna have to see. I filled this tank today at 505 miles with a 57.1computer mpg. I'd expected more like 550 miles at 58.4. But rain last night and today then a trip with all 4.5 family members (my wife is 28 weeks pregnant) today in the rain dropped me from 57.4-57.1 in just 20 miles and gas prices are on the rise but hadn't hit my local Wal-mart yet so I thought it best to fill up--the add fuel had been flashing for about 16 miles.

    If I can continue to get 57mpg, with flaps, and my normal driving routine, they'll stay on forever. But, if this tank drops me down to the low 50s, even sub-55 range with good driving weather I really will consider removal--at least as a trial.

    Someone asked if my design was different than their Canadian flaps. I doubt it, these say "made in Canada" on them, and I bought them from ToyotaTown--a Canadian dealer. They do not have a particularly pronouced profile, but they're still scooped and stick out behind--they obviously catch a lot of air that would otherwise slide by--I know that b/c they catch the much and spray that would otherwise slide by/stick onto the side of my car!
     
  14. woodworks

    woodworks New Member

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    Just wanted to add my $0.02 to the discussion here, now that I have something empirical to add. I installed the flaps today and I think they really add to the appearance of the car. Looks much more complete this way, IMO.

    As to the mileage, I have no hard data. But it seems to me that they "should" actually improve mileage because they fill in the space behind the wheels where a partial vacuum (and thus increased drag) would occur. If I remember anything from high school physics (not a good bet) the mudlaps should act as sort of a streamlining alteration.

    But as the Firesign Theater guys told us: Everything you know is wrong! :wink:
     
  15. MrU

    MrU New Member

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    Just yesterday, I installed my mud flaps (purchased on eBay). Took about 45 minutes, but that includes removing and installing the rear wheels. The like the OEM appearance...if I did not tell you they were aftermarket...you would never notice them.

    As for the decrease in mileage, I will have to wait for the facts from my future mpg. Having studied aerodynamics, my opinion is that I will likely see about a 1-2% drop in fuel mileage.

    MrU
     
  16. Bob Allen

    Bob Allen Captainbaba

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    Not to doubt Evan's research on this subject, but I would think from looking at the photos of the car, that the mudflaps are behind the tire and thus shouldn't add to the frontal profile, unless they protrude out to the side where they would increase the apparent width of the tire accordingly. There might be some wind turbulence effect between the tire and the mudflap, but the distance between them is probably only a few inches.
    Another question for Evan: are the flaps rigid or are they more like the flexible flaps on the back of semis? I installed a set of the latter on a car a number of years ago, and over time, the flaps assumed a very bent-backwards shape due to the force of oncoming wind, and lost a great deal of their mud stopping capbability.
    Amazing, isn't it, how this group can process something as simple as a set of mud flaps. It's not like we're talking about modifying the life support system on the spaceship.
     
  17. norman

    norman New Member

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    The surface area of the "flap" is really quite tiny, and the material is quite rigid. Not a 'flappy' flap!
     
  18. Tempus

    Tempus Senior Member

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    The time I can see the most increased wind resistance on those flaps is when the front wheels are turned and a portion of the flap is exposed that would otherwise be behind the wheel.

    I agree, they look like they would be fairly aerodynamic on highway runs, but if you are going through a set of twisties I can see a potential for a noticeable increase in drag over the no-flaps configuration.