Motor oil article

Thanks. It's fascinating. What conclusions do you draw about Prius? Use thicker oil?

 

Interesting article.
Does Toyota recommend different oil outside North America as well as different change intervals?

 

I look at it this way, it depends on how long you keep a car and how many miles you are going to put on it.

I trade cars when the warranty is up and the miles I put on are low, so to protect the warranty. I use the mfg recommended oils.

If i kept the car a long time and put on a lot of miles I would error on the side of heavier oils that will lubricate better and hopefully extend the life of the engine.

 

Very interesting. I would have liked to know how this apply to colder climates.

Being in Canada and having a choice between 0W20 or 5W20 (as per Toyota's Owners manual for Canada), I will prefer 5W20 in the summer. But for the winter...? 5W20 will reduce engine wear when the engine is warm but will be thicker at -15°C and will then put more wear on a cold engine than 0W20...

As of now, I haven't been able to find Mobil1 0W20... so 5W20 it will be for this winter...

 

They have it on the shelf at Walmart here in sunny California.

I have been using 0W30 for the last couple of oil changes. My reasoning is that it flows better at cold temps than 5W30, but has virtually the same hot viscosity. It is the same price for Mobil 1 0W30 and 5W30 at Walmart.

 

virtually imperceptible difference in viscosity between the cold weight of 0 and the cold weight of 5

further, the internal combustion chambers are not going to run cooler in your car once the car is warmed in the winter

i'd be running a 0W30 or a 5W30, whichever is available, year round

 

cen-pe-co.com is a purveyor of paraffin-based oils meant for heavy equipment, trucking, farming, racing and industrial applications. Since they do not deal in synthetic oil products, the point of view of this article might not be on-topic for high-mpg passenger vehicles.

 

i don't think the distinction is relevant

in fact, oils like Rotella, Mobil Delvac, Chevron Delo, all primarily developed for diesel engines, 18 wheelers and heavy machinery have been widely accepted and embraced for passenger vehicles, and more notably powersports, motorcycles and high performance cars

the viscosity and friction issues are the same in all internal combustion engines, and the primary differences between dino and synth oils are the OCI, based largely on additive packages and the ability to maintain viscosity longer ... i.e. longer OCI's

viscosity is viscosity, and a thirty weight oil is going to suspend contaminants better than the twenty weight, it's also going to maintain viscosity better, and longer, as well as reduce friction better, from day one until the day the oil is changed

further, the Prius isn't really a high winding beast

 

OK, I admit that the subject of oil is not exactly my forte (I rely on and defer to others on this forum who are obviously knowledgeable on the subject). That said, here are a few of my observations/opinions:

(1) Note citation request at bottom: “By Blaine Ballentine, Central Petroleum Company, "Motor Oils - Fuel Economy vs. Wear". Machinery Lubrication Magazine. July 2003â€

- Perhaps just a bit out of date? A lot has changed in almost seven years...


(2) “First, we should face the fact that the American consumer does not appear to care too much about fuel economy. The No. 1 selling passenger vehicle is the Ford F-Series Pickup. Five of the top 10 best-selling vehicles are trucks, and trucks outsell cars.â€

-Uh, yeah, we couldn't care less about FE (well, admittedly many don't). But, 2 million+ Americans have bought Prii since this article was written. Also, as above, I challenge the currency of this assertion; again, seems like old data. Not inaccuarate at the time; just outdated.

(3) “Additionally, consider how most vehicles are driven. Anyone accelerating slowly or driving at the speed limit to conserve energy is a danger to himself and other drivers who are in a much bigger hurry."

- Sounds like an editorial comment to me, with undertones of an axe to grind against "the gummint" and others.

(4)“Thicker oils also compromise cold temperature flow, which may be of concern depending upon climate and season. “
-Sounds sensible to me. Especially when your car shuts on and off frequently.

(5) “The best protection against wear is probably a product that is a little thicker …â€

- Maybe, maybe not, especially in a vehicle like the Prius that runs at low speed and temps and constantly stops and starts. But in any case, contradictory to the above statement.

(6)“The best oil for your vehicle depends on your driving habits, the age of your engine and the climate you drive in, but it is not necessarily the type of oil specified in the owner’s manual or stamped on the dipstick. “

- Agreed 100%, at least in the case of the 2010 Prius where a single recommendation is made for a single continent (North America) >9 million mi^2, with temps ranging from -80F to +130F.

Just my thoughts.
Cheers
Tim

 

excellent analysis

personally, i don't like the assertion that the American consumer does not care about fuel economy either, and while at the time the F150 was the best selling vehicle, it is hardly a gas guzzler devoid of any utility ... and millions of Americans haul boats, atvs, motorcycles, trailers and use a vehicle for both work and play, and a pickup like the F150 is extraordinarily versatile ... and has similar oil requirements to the Prius (and uses the same oil)

 

i think that a bypass filtration system for engine oil is incredibly effective, but people are reluctant to pay two to three hundred dollars on something they typically have the dealer maintain at what they perceive to be negligible cost

i lease my Prius, but if i owned it, i'd install a bypass system :thumb:

the front loaded cost of purchase (and i'd install it myself) would more than pay for itself by lessening the need for oil changes in lieu of filter changes, and reduced potential of any engine breakdown from friction or oil related failures ... the payoff would be a clean lost lasting engine

 

http://priuschat.com/forums/gen-ii-prius-modifications/23222-bypass-filter-install.html

I think bypass systems make sense when you have a large crankcase and you want to really extend the OCI, but with the small (3.5 qt) crankcase of the Prius it doesn't seem that cost effective to me.

 

it may not be cost effective
but then again, you will eliminate a LOT of oil going back to the recycler, a lot of oil filters going to landfill, and lot of plastic jugs going to landfill, your engine will clean and pristine for hundreds of thousands of miles ...

it will get the job done :rockon:


yeah, it makes more sense on a big rig or a diesel work truck
but c'mon ... it will work, and it will work well

no?

 

Journey with me to the thrilling days of yesteryear. Once upon a time whenever you bought a new car, in the owners manual was a chart. This chart usually consisted of several different viscosities of oil rated for use in the car based on temperature range. There were always nice arrows showing the lowest and highest temperature recommended for a particular viscosity. Usually around four different oil viscosities were listed.

In my mind viscosity is viscosity and temperature is temperature neither having changed since i was a young fellow. What has changed is government mileage standards for an auto makers fleet with stiff "gas guzzler" penalties if the standards were not met. The auto makers response has been, everyone will run the lowest viscosity oil we can find regardless of expected climate in order to squeeze every possible 1/10 of MPG from the car.

I know I am getting old now but somehow I still have a problem believing that the same oil that is best for your engine in Phoenix, Arizona in July is also perfect for Fairbanks, Alaska in January.

 

interesting, thank you :thumb:


where did they go wrong?

i think they should have purchased Rotella T Synthetic 5W40 by the drum and used it in both vehicles, and used TBN values to ascertain the longest OCI

or used the Amsoil SSO 0W30 in the Tahoes and really gone for twice annual changes (it appears they were putting close to 36k annually on the Tahoes, and essentially, with the SSO 0W30 Amsoil, they could have gotten away with one oil change annually, with occasional top-offs, at remarkable cost savings per year)

 

I am trying to understand this statement. Does that mean after the oil is changed, 30w oil is no longer better, even when you change back to 30w later?

 

One of the things not addressed is the on again and off again nature of the Prius engine. It may be that the lower viscosity oil due to it's lower resistance to flow, actually is better for the Prius engine.
Another thing not looked at is what are the clearances of the Prius engine? If as I suspect the clearances are tight, then lower than normal viscosity oil would be needed. For instance aircraft engine have very loose clearances and usually will use up to a straight 50 or 60 weight oil.
Do we have roller cams? That plays into it as well.