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Mileage dropped after oil, filters, & tire change. Or did it?

Discussion in 'Gen 2 Prius Care, Maintenance and Troubleshooting' started by 7Lowe, Oct 19, 2014.

  1. 7Lowe

    7Lowe Junior Member

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    I have a 2005 Prius that I bought about 1 year ago that has about 75k miles. According to the display, I have been getting about 5.5l/100km (~43mpg) up until I did some maintenance in July.

    A friend helped me change the oil, oil filter, and cabin air filter. Also, right around this time I bought a new set of tires. For some stupid reason, I had the idea that it had run flat tires, so that's what I bought & by the time I realized my mistake, it was too late.

    Right after this I noticed a drop to 6.3l/100km (~37mpg) and have gone through 2 or 3 tanks of gas since then and it's only gotten worse. But, yesterday I noticed while driving that if I let off the gas and am just coasting the display will show that the engine isn't running, but it will still show consumption in the instant reading at the bottom for several seconds. For instance, the time I noticed it the engine was off and there was no energy transfer at all, but the instant readout was reading 20l/100k (~12mpg) for quite some time.

    So, now I'm wondering if the mileage really has dropped that much, or if the computer has just gotten really bad ad calculating it for some reason.

    If it has gotten worse, I'm wondering if it would be due to the run flats, or is it possibly just the HV battery starting to go bad since it's 10 years old now.

    Any advice on what I should do?
     
  2. archae86

    archae86 Member

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    One piece of advice is that replacing worn tires with new tires is almost sure to give an actual, temporary, but fairly substantial mpg reduction.

    I suspect the actual amount depends very much on the particular tires in question, but this general effect is widely reported, and one for which by odd circumstance I have pretty direct evidence in my own experience.

    Warning--non Prius data here.

    I own and Audi A4, which when new had Pirelli P6 tires. I live in a town (Albuquerque) for which much of the Northest Heights is built on a gradual slope, so that several roads I travel have stretches for which the slope in moderate weather means the car holds nearly constant speed when coast near the speed limit.

    So, when I first replaced the original P6 tires with the exact came model of P6 tire, I had the chance to observe that on those places where just before the change my car had been slightly speeding up in coast it was now slowing down in coast (no, the air temperature had not changed).

    I don't know how much of your observation is explained by this alone, and I also don't know whether your new tires just have considerably higher rolling resistance inherently than the ones you discarded, but suspect both are true, and may explain at least part of your loss observation.

    By the way--is it colder now? All by itself that is a powerful mpg loss factor.
     
  3. uart

    uart Senior Member

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    Hi 7Lowe. The first thing that you have to understand is that the Prius engine does frequently continue to run, even when no power is being delivered to the wheels. And during these times there is absolutely no indication of this shown on the energy monitor display (and all this happens even when the engine is fully warmed up). This unfortunate mode of operation is here (unofficially) referred to as "hybrid stage 3a". Read about the various stages of Gen2 Prius hybrid operation here: http://www.techno-fandom.org/~hobbit/cars/five-stages.txt

    It's the tires. Almost for certain it's the tires. Trade them in for something with known LRR qualifications (eg Bridgestone Ecopia EP100), and your fuel consumption will go under 5.0 L/100km. Sure you may lose some money in the trade over, but it will save you a lot of money in the long run.

    BTW. Also make sure that you don't overfill the oil, and use a good quality 5w30 synthetic.
     
    #3 uart, Oct 19, 2014
    Last edited: Oct 19, 2014
  4. css28

    css28 Senior Member

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    Is it possible that you used a higher viscosity oil that it had before?

    Other than that I believe it's your tires. Perhaps you can try higher tire pressures. If the ride's not too uncomfortable you should be able to reduce the consumption a bit.
     
  5. GrumpyCabbie

    GrumpyCabbie Senior Member

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    The type of tyre makes a BIG difference to the fuel economy of a car. People just don't really notice in a traditional car where a drop of 1 or 2 mpg happens. On a Prius that can work out about 8 or 10 mpg which is significant.

    Want good fuel economy? Buy a quality low rolling resistance tyre. I have the A/A rated Bridgestone EP001S's on mine and they're amazing. They grip in the wet really really well and the car just floats along. Being from Europe you are obviously familiar with the EU tyre rating system that's been available for nearly 2 years, and perhaps in future you could consider refering to it next time you're consider a new tyre purchase. It would save you time and money.

    Tyre labelling | AA
     
  6. Britprius

    Britprius Senior Member

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    As GC stated above the tyres must be LRR tyres to get the best fuel consumption figures. You state you have fitted "run flat tyres" these are definitely not low rolling resistance, in fact they are about as bad as you can get. They are also very heavy compared with ordinary tyres and this also makes a difference.
    As others have stated fitting a set of LRR tyres will pay for themselves in fuel saved. You may be able to get your tyre supplier to give you a partial refund on the tyres you have or sell them on to say a BMW owner. If you need information on European tyres read the thread linked below.
    Changing tyre size to 205/55/16 will save you money on the price of the tyres and will also improve the cars handling and feel.
    Low Rolling Resistance replacement tyres (Europe)

    John (Britprius)
     
  7. Britprius

    Britprius Senior Member

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  8. GrumpyCabbie

    GrumpyCabbie Senior Member

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    I'm wondering if he has a bad 12v that has been killed off by leaving doors open when the car was serviced.
     
  9. Britprius

    Britprius Senior Member

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    GC it is a possibility, but he does state he bought run flat tyres. If you look up the RR of such tyres they are terrible. They also weigh so much more and this weight is concentrated at the outermost diameter "the tread" where it makes the most difference with inertia.
    Unfortunately for the OP they are also very expensive.

    John (Britprius)
     
  10. GrumpyCabbie

    GrumpyCabbie Senior Member

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    I was refering to the issues the OP was suffering with the engine continuing to run. Though perhaps the OP would car to elaborate. He does seem to have a marvelous grasp of the English language too.
     
  11. Britprius

    Britprius Senior Member

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    But he cannot spell tyres.;)

    John (Britprius)
     
  12. GrumpyCabbie

    GrumpyCabbie Senior Member

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    I was going to suggest that he has an amazing grasp of American English and its spelling, but though better of it. :censored:
     
  13. 7Lowe

    7Lowe Junior Member

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    Thanks for the comments. I replaced the 12v battery right after buying the car, so I'm fairly certain that the problem isn't with it. Based on all the comments, I'm guessing it probably is the tires.

    I'll ask my friend who helped me buy the tires about the possibility of trading or selling them. But, I'm moving again in about 9 months. I should find out where next month and then I'll decide whether I'm going to keep this car and take it with me or try to sell it first. So, I'll probably wait another month before doing anything (I don't drive much at all so one month won't make much of a difference.)

    P.S. I am actually American and I just moved to Portugal a year ago. So, I'm actually not familiar with that EU "tyre" rating system or the proper spelling. ;)
     
  14. Britprius

    Britprius Senior Member

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    The EU tyre rating system gives information "based on a standard test" (1) for the fuel economy of tyres "rolling resistance".
    (2) The wet grip of the tyre. (3) The noise level of the tyre.
    The first two are graded "A" to "G", "A" being the best. The noise level is given in db's the lower the number the quieter the tyre.
    This information must be displayed at the point of sale usually by a label n the tyre. This allows customers to be able to choose tyres on real results, and not the manufactures hype.

    John (Britprius)
     
  15. GrumpyCabbie

    GrumpyCabbie Senior Member

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    There's usually a big sticker stuck on the tread of the tyre, which I understood is a requirement of the new ratings. Obviously the sticker is removed before use - or should be.

    [​IMG]
     
  16. littlehandegan

    littlehandegan Junior Member

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    Runflats are quite heavy, and have up to 20% more rolling resistance than non-RFT
     
  17. uart

    uart Senior Member

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    I left mine stuck on, just to show off my green credentials. ;)

    Just joking, we don't even have those stickers here. I wish we did have those EP001s's though, the best I could find locally were the EP100's. They still give really good LRR performance though, and the tread pattern looks almost identical to those EP001s's.