Lost Smart Key...advice?

widmerpool · Sep 19, 2006

i still have a silver SKS fob.

if i get a Smart Key from a 3rd party, will the dealer program AND make one of the little keys to fit in the fob?

how much should the programming cost?

i've been a consistent customer of one dealer and I have plenty to choose from in ATL so I will shop around if they try to rook me.

thanks.

efusco · Sep 19, 2006

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(widmerpool @ Sep 19 2006, 10:24 AM) [snapback]321635[/snapback]</div>

i still have a silver SKS fob.

if i get a Smart Key from a 3rd party, will the dealer program AND make one of the little keys to fit in the fob?

how much should the programming cost?

i've been a consistent customer of one dealer and I have plenty to choose from in ATL so I will shop around if they try to rook me.

thanks. [/b]
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If the 3rd party fob comes with a blank mechanical key you should be able to get that cut at the dealer or anywhere.
The dealers charge varying amounts for the programming... I think I've seen everything from $50-$190...it's definately worth shopping around. No idea how they come up with a number to decide what to charge.

Tideland Prius · Sep 19, 2006

I thought the fob would already include the mechanical key. Anyway, yeah make sure you get it done before you lose the 2nd fob.

pirus_2005 · Sep 20, 2006

Cost me $236 Including taxes
I called couple dealers and my dealer said it would cost me 290
I asked him to price match the lowest (which was around $240 and he did (ofcourse $4 off )
call all the dealers around your Neighborhood and see if the closest one can pricematch the cheapest among th0se Quotes
Good Luck

Bob Allen · Sep 20, 2006

This is a little like shutting the barn door after the horse has left. I put my phone number (NOT address) and a "reward" tag on my fob in the event I should lose it and some honest person finds it. The fob is useless to anyone not interested in trying to steal your car, but most people would try to return it if they had a phone number to call.

Bob

p.s. Conicelli Toyota in Pennsylvania will sell you a blank fob for $166.00. You'll need to spend another 50 bucks getting it programmed. If you get another fob, your dealer will need both (all) the fobs together when he does the programming. I have three fobs and my dealer went nuts trying to get them all programmed until a bright mechanic figured out that all three needed to be in proximity to one another during the programming process. Why, you might ask? Each fob has a different code, but your Prius will recognize each code. When re-programming fobs, the computer needs to have all of them present in order to reset its internal recognition software.

Used to be that we were smarter than our cars.

Bob

justin96039 · Sep 23, 2006

Why don't you take in your original, and your other one that you bought brand new. Replace the silver key inside it. Take it to the dealer and let them know its not working. Then it would be covered under warranty for the programming. My key fob did loose its memory for the car. This had to be done under warranty (the smart key wasn't broken). The internal computer just lost it. JW

IsrAmeriPrius · Sep 23, 2006

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(JWHybrid @ Sep 23 2006, 04:53 PM) [snapback]324062[/snapback]</div>

Why don't you take in your original, and your other one that you bought brand new. Replace the silver key inside it. Take it to the dealer and let them know its not working. Then it would be covered under warranty for the programming.[/b]
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That is illegal. It is theft by pretext.

fphinney · Sep 24, 2006

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(IsrAmeriPrius @ Sep 23 2006, 09:04 PM) [snapback]324092[/snapback]</div>

That is illegal. It is theft by pretext. [/b]
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~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

INTERESTING - -

So that is how theft is defined?

What do you call the outrageous prices that Toyota dealers charge?

IsrAmeriPrius · Sep 24, 2006

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(fphinney @ Sep 23 2006, 10:35 PM) [snapback]324157[/snapback]</div>

INTERESTING - -

So that is how theft is defined?
[/b]
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Here are the relevant California Jury Instructions:

1804. Theft by False Pretense

The defendant is charged [in Count ] with [grand/petty]
theft by false pretense.

To prove that the defendant is guilty of this crime, the People
must prove that:
1. The defendant knowingly and intentionally deceived a
property owner [or the ownerâ€™s agent] by false or
fraudulent representation or pretense;
2. The defendant did so intending to persuade the owner [or
the ownerâ€™s agent] to let the defendant [or another person]
take possession and ownership of the property;
3. The owner [or the ownerâ€™s agent] let the defendant [or
another person] take possession and ownership of the
property because the owner [or the ownerâ€™s agent] relied
on the representation or pretense;
AND
4. When the defendant acted, (he/she) intended (to deprive
the owner of the property permanently/ [or] to remove it
from the ownerâ€™s [or ownerâ€™s agentâ€™s] possession for so
extended a period of time that the owner would be
deprived of a major portion of the value or enjoyment of
the property).

You may not find the defendant guilty of this crime unless the
People have proved that:
[A. The false pretense was accompanied by either a writing or
false token(;/.)]
[OR]
[(A/B). There was a note or memorandum of the pretense
signed or handwritten by the defendant(;/.)]
[OR]
[(A/B/C). Testimony from two witnesses or testimony from a
single witness along with other evidence supports the
conclusion that the defendant made the pretense.]

[Property includes money, labor, and real or personal property.]

A false pretense is any act, word, symbol, or token the purpose
of which is to deceive.

[Someone makes a false pretense if, intending to deceive, he or
she does [one or more of] the following:
[1. Gives information he or she knows is false(./]
[OR
2. Makes a misrepresentation recklessly without information
that justifies a reasonable belief in its truth(./]
[OR
3. Does not give information when he or she has an
obligation to do so(./]
[OR
4. Makes a promise not intending to do what he or she
promises.]]

[Proof that the representation or pretense was false is not enough
by itself to prove that the defendant intended to deceive.]
[Proof that the defendant did not perform as promised is not
enough by itself to prove that the defendant did not intend to
perform as promised.]

[A false token is a document or object that is not authentic, but
appears to be, and is used to deceive.]
[For petty theft, the property taken can be of any value, no
matter how slight.]

[An owner [or an ownerâ€™s agent] relies on false pretense, if the
falsehood is an important part of the reason the owner [or agent]
decides to give up the property. The false pretense must be an
important factor, but it does not have to be the only factor the
owner [or agent] considers in making the decision. [If the owner
[or agent] gives up property some time after the pretense is
made, the owner [or agent] must do so because he or she relies
on the pretense.]]

[An agent is someone to whom the owner has given complete or
partial authority and control over the ownerâ€™s property.]

BENCH NOTES

Instructional Duty

The court has a sua sponte duty to instruct on the elements of this crime,
including the corroboration requirements stated in Penal Code section
532(B). (People v. Mason (1973) 34 Cal.App.3d 281, 286 [109 Cal.Rptr.
867] [error not to instruct on corroboration requirements].)
To have the requisite intent for theft, the thief must either intend to
deprive the owner permanently or to deprive the owner of a major portion
of the propertyâ€™s value or enjoyment. (See People v. Avery (2002) 27
Cal.4th 49, 57â€“58 [115 Cal.Rptr.2d 403, 38 P.3d 1].) Select the appropriate
language in element 4.

Related Instructions

If the defendant is also charged with grand theft, give CALCRIM No.
1801, Theft: Degrees. If the defendant is charged with petty theft, no other
instruction is required, and the jury should receive a petty theft verdict
form.

If the defendant is charged with petty theft with a prior conviction, give
CALCRIM No. 1850, Petty Theft With Prior Conviction.

AUTHORITY

c Elements. Pen. Code Â§ 484; People v. Wooten (1996) 44 Cal.App.4th
1834, 1842 [52 Cal.Rptr.2d 765]; see People v. Webb (1999) 74
Cal.App.4th 688, 693â€“694 [88 Cal.Rptr.2d 259] [false statement of
opinion].

c Corroboration Requirements. Pen. Code Â§ 532(B); People v. Gentry
(1991) 234 Cal.App.3d 131, 139 [285 Cal.Rptr. 591]; People v. Fujita
(1974) 43 Cal.App.3d 454, 470â€“471 [117 Cal.Rptr. 757].
c Agent. People v. Britz (1971) 17 Cal.App.3d 743, 753 [95 Cal.Rptr.
303].

c Intent to Deprive Owner of Main Value. People v. Avery (2002) 27
Cal.4th 49, 57â€“59 [115 Cal.Rptr.2d 403, 38 P.3d 1], disapproving, to
extent it is inconsistent, People v. Marquez (1993) 16 Cal.App.4th 115,
123 [20 Cal.Rptr.2d 365].

c Reckless Misrepresentation. People v. Schmitt (1957) 155 Cal.App.2d
87, 110 [317 P.2d 673]; People v. Ryan (1951) 103 Cal.App.2d 904,
908â€“909 [230 P.2d 359].

c Defendant Need Not Be Beneficiary of Theft. People v. Cheeley
(1951) 106 Cal.App.2d 748, 753.

c Reliance. People v. Wooten (1996) 44 Cal.App.4th 1834, 1842â€“1843
[52 Cal.Rptr.2d 765] [defining reliance]; People v. Sanders (1998) 67
Cal.App.4th 1403, 1413 [79 Cal.Rptr.2d 806] [reversible error to fail to
instruct on reliance]; People v. Whight (1995) 36 Cal.App.4th 1143,
1152â€“1153 [43 Cal.Rptr.2d 163] [no reliance if victim relies solely on
own investigation].

c Theft of Real Property by False Pretenses. People v. Sanders (1998)
67 Cal.App.4th 1403, 1413â€“1417 [79 Cal.Rptr.2d 806].

Secondary Sources

2 Witkin & Epstein, California Criminal Law (3d ed. 2000) Crimes
Against Property, Â§Â§ 12, 64.

6 Millman, Sevilla & Tarlow, California Criminal Defense Practice, Ch.
143, Crimes Against Property, Â§ 143.01 (Matthew Bender).

LESSER INCLUDED OFFENSES

c Petty Theft. Pen. Code, Â§ 486.
c Attempted Theft. Pen. Code, Â§Â§ 664, 484.

RELATED ISSUES

Attempted Theft by False Pretense

Reliance on the false pretense need not be proved for a person to be guilty
of attempted theft by false pretense. (People v. Fujita (1974) 43
Cal.App.3d 454, 467 [117 Cal.Rptr. 757].)

Continuing Nature of False Pretense

Penal Code section 484 recognizes that theft by false pretense is a crime of
a continuing nature and covers any â€œproperty or service received as a result
thereof, and the complaint, information or indictment may charge that the
crime was committed on any date during the particular period in question.â€
(Pen. Code, Â§ 484(a).)

Corroborationâ€“Defined/Multiple Witnesses

â€œCorroborating evidence is sufficient if it tends to connect the defendant
with the commission of the crime in such a way so as to reasonably satisfy
the jury that the complaining witness is telling the truth.â€ (People v. Fujita
(1974) 43 Cal.App.3d 454, 470 [117 Cal.Rptr. 757].) When considering if
the pretense is corroborated the jury may consider â€œthe entire conduct of
the defendant, and his declarations to other persons.â€ (People v. Wymer
(1921) 53 Cal.App. 204, 206 [199 P. 815].) The test for corroboration of
false pretense is the same as the test for corroborating the testimony of an
accomplice in Penal Code section 1111. (Ibid.; see also People v.
MacEwing (1955) 45 Cal.2d 218, 224 [288 P.2d 257].) To establish
corroboration by multiple witnesses, the witnesses do not have to testify to
the same false pretense. The requirement is satisfied as long as they testify
to the same scheme or type of false pretense. (People v. Gentry (1991) 234
Cal.App.3d 131, 139 [285 Cal.Rptr. 591]; People v. Ashley (1954) 42
Cal.2d 246, 268 [267 P.2d 271].)

Distinguished from Theft by Trick

Although fraud is used to obtain the property in both theft by trick and
theft by false pretense, in theft by false pretense, the thief obtains both
possession and title to the property. For theft by trick, the thief gains only
possession of the property. (People v. Ashley (1954) 42 Cal.2d 246, 258
[267 P.2d 271]; People v. Randono (1973) 32 Cal.App.3d 164, 172 [108
Cal.Rptr. 326].) False pretenses does not require that the title pass perfectly
and the victim may even retain a security interest in the property
transferred to the defendant. (People v. Counts (1995) 31 Cal.App.4th 785,
789â€“792 [37 Cal.Rptr.2d 425].)

Fraudulent Checks

If a check is the basis for the theft by false pretense, it cannot also supply
the written corroboration required by statute. (People v. Mason (1973) 34
Cal.App.3d 281, 288 [109 Cal.Rptr. 867].)

Genuine Writings

A genuine writing that is falsely used is not a false token. (People v.
Beilfuss (1943) 59 Cal.App.2d 83, 91 [138 P.2d 332] [valid check obtained
by fraud not object of theft by false pretense].)

Implicit Misrepresentations

The misrepresentation does not have to be made in an express statement; it
may be implied from behavior or other circumstances. (People v. Mace
(1925) 71 Cal.App. 10, 21 [234 P. 841]; People v. Randono (1973) 32
Cal.App.3d 164, 174â€“175 [108 Cal.Rptr. 326] [analogizing to the law of
implied contracts].)

Non-Performance of a Promise Is Insufficient to Prove a False Pretense

The pretense may be made about a past or present fact or about a promise
to do something in the future. (People v. Ashley (1954) 42 Cal.2d 246,
259â€“265 [267 P.2d 271].) If the pretense relates to future actions, evidence
of non-performance of the promise is not enough to establish the falsity of
a promise. (People v. Fujita (1974) 43 Cal.App.3d 454, 469 [117 Cal.Rptr.
757].) The intent to defraud at the time the promise is made must be
demonstrated. As the court in Ashley stated, â€œ[w]hether the pretense is a
false promise or a misrepresentation of fact, the defendantâ€™s intent must be
proved in both instances by something more than mere proof of nonperformance
or actual falsity.â€ (People v. Ashley, supra, 42 Cal.2d at p.
264 [court also stated that defendant is entitled to instruction on this point
but did not characterize duty as sua sponte].)

See the Related Issues section under CALCRIM No. 1800, Theft by
Larceny.

(Revised August 2006)
Copyright 2006 Judicial Council of California. Published by LexisNexis Matthew Bender,
official publisher of the Judicial Council Jury Instructions.

Complete Text of the 2006-2007 Criminal Jury Instructions

Criminal Jury Instructions Resource Center[/b]
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<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(fphinney @ Sep 23 2006, 10:35 PM) [snapback]324157[/snapback]</div>

What do you call the outrageous prices that Toyota dealers charge?
[/b]
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Have they deceived you over the prices they charge?

P.S. Obviously you have not been to a Mercedes, BMW or a Porsche service department, to name but a few. Toyota is cheap in comparison.

justin96039 · Sep 28, 2006

It is not illegal when the only thing you are doing is getting a key programmed. I have lost the programing to my smart key and this is what you have to do. You tell them it doesnt work anymore. This is not a criminal action. Its a warranty action. We paid enough for these vehicles. If I wanted to spend 400 dollars for a key I would have bought a mercedes. I bought a Toyota.

MarinJohn · Sep 28, 2006

Similar to Bob, I took a whiteout pen and wrote only my phone number directly on my fob. Although I didn't advertise it, if it is found I will offer a reward upon it's return.

IsrAmeriPrius · Sep 28, 2006

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(JWHybrid @ Sep 28 2006, 09:23 AM) [snapback]325086[/snapback]</div>

Its a warranty action.
[/b]
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It is covered by the warranty if your original fob lost its ability to communicate with the car. Telling the service department that your newly purchased replacement is the original fob which no longer works is a lie. That is a false pretense which makes what you suggest doing a theft of services, a crime.

I know people who were successfully prosecuted for such shenanigans.

Lost Smart Key...advice?

widmerpool New Member

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Lost Smart Key...advice?

widmerpool New Member

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