lost front brakes completely

This is why I don't let my Dad work on my cars anymore. (Not like he wants to now, he's 78.)

But a few decades ago when I owned a Ford Pinto he decides to change the oil. After he's done he asks me to get in the car and turn it on. The minute I hear the engine seize I turn the car off.

"Did you remember to put oil back in the car?"

"Don't worry about it, I'll fix it."

And he did. But it took him over a week. I drove his car while he worked on it.

I make more money now so I can afford to take it to the dealer for servicing. I would anyway. No way I'm letting anyone who doesn't know what they're doing or is just "curious" work on my Prius.

Will Dad be paying the bill to have the brakes fixed?

 

You dad is a moron. You bleed brakes with everything put together: pads in the caliper, and caliper mounted on the car. Getting all the air out of an ABS system is now beyond the capability of most home mechanics. You can change the fluid if you're careful not to allow any air in the system, but once air gets in the system, it's time to take the car to a pro who has the scan tool to automatically cycle all the valves and pump to get all the air out.

To change brake fluid, pros use a tool that pressurizes the whole brake system, and supplies new fluid into the master cylinder reservoir at the same time. All they have to do is attach and turn on the machine, and then go to each corner and open up the bleeder bolt and let fluid squirt out until they see fresh fluid.

You shouldn't be charged more than $50 to refill and bleed your brake system, but I wouldn't be surprised if they tack on some additional charges to inspect your brake system for damage. Hopefully the piston wasn't damaged when it shot out of the bore.

For reference, replacing every fluid in my SUV costs about $350, and consists of the following:

Engine oil
Transmission fluid
Transfer case fluid
Front differential oil
Rear differential oil
Engine coolant
Brake fluid

 

I've only had my Prius for about 15 hours so I of course haven't tried to bleed the brakes in it. I've read the friction brakes are only even used at slower speeds so for all I know the braking system is completely different. Assuming now they have a master cylinder like "normal" brakes, this is how you do it:

Top off the master cylinder with fluid. During this process you need to make sure this doesn't go dry.

Go to the caliper that's FURTHEST away from the master cylinder first. If the master cylinder is on the drivers side of the engine compartment this would be the passenger rear tire. I haven't looked for the master cylinder (assuming there is one) in the Prius and my wife has it at the moment at the store so you'll have to take a look for yourself.

Locate the bleed screw. It's easiest to use a length of clear tube and attach it to the nipple, then put the other end of the tube in a bottle half full of brake fluid (check to see what the required brake fluid is). This tube isn't necessary, but makes the job not only cleaner but less likely you'll pull more air in to the system.

Have a helper apply the brakes smoothly. As they start applying the brakes open the bleeder screw. Air may start sputtering out but more than likely if you're starting on a caliper that you didn't suck air in to just fluid will come out. Once your helper gets the brakes to the floor tell him to HOLD THEM there until you close the bleeder screw. Repeat this process one more time if you didn't have air the first time. If you did have air come out keep doing this process until all the air is out.

Next move to the next furthest from the master cylinder. This should be the opposite rear tire. Repeat the process until you get to the caliper closest to the master cylinder.

You probably won't have much air come out from the calipers except for the one that you shot the piston out. This one you'll have to do several times.

You're done. If you don't get the brake feel you used to have I'd now at least say it's safe enough to make a trip to the shop to have someone redo this for you. ...but if you followed the directions this probably won't be necessary. Again, this is assuming the brakes on the Prius are the same as normal brakes on traditional cars.

Mike

 

d'oh! you just learned rule 1 of working on brakes.

no, you can't bleed these brakes on your own. the cost will vary depending on the shop but a bleed will include replacing the fluid. you'll probably be looking at new caliper(s) too.

get a tow, the front brakes do 80% of the braking force. that's really dangerous to drive as is. good luck.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(mingoglia @ Oct 28 2007, 04:48 PM) [snapback]531663[/snapback]</div>

unfortunately, they're a whole different universe...


<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(priusenvy @ Oct 28 2007, 04:43 PM) [snapback]531661[/snapback]</div>

and you need the scantool for the prius too.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(priusenvy @ Oct 28 2007, 01:43 PM) [snapback]531661[/snapback]</div>

+1.

I couldn't believe my eyes when I saw the OP. It reminded me of when my father owned a Diesel Rabbit (I had a 1978, he had to get one when he saw the mileage I was getting, his was a 1979). Unfortunately, he had a penchant for finding the cheapest fuel he could - guess what, he got a load of contaminated fuel. Long story short, after $4,000 in parts (I did the labor) I told him to buy his diesel from Chevron stations. He knew better and lo and behold got another load of contaminated fuel. This time, the repairs were entirely on his dime (including the labor) to the tune of $7,500 for a new short-block plus injection pump. Shortly afterwards he sold the car with about 25,000 miles on it. Sometimes, you can lead a horse to water but you can't make them drink....

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(priusenvy @ Oct 28 2007, 01:43 PM) [snapback]531661[/snapback]</div>

What about the power steering fluid?

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(mingoglia @ Oct 28 2007, 03:48 PM) [snapback]531663[/snapback]</div>

That is the only part you got right. Please read the attached Adobe Acrobat file from the official shop manual.

I'm going to repeat this for the general audience of Prius owners:

Whatever you do, do NOT ATTEMPT TO BLEED THE BRAKES YOURSELF!! The life you save may be your own

Oh, and I checked my 2007 FJ Cruiser. It has electric assist brakes, but they CAN be flushed/bled the "old fashioned" way. You only need the scantool if the master cylinder solenoid has air in it. Please see the attached pdf for the FJ Cruiser

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(apriusfan @ Oct 28 2007, 04:58 PM) [snapback]531679[/snapback]</div>

A coworker at the office started off the same way with his now 3 year old VW Golf tdi. Since I'm bigger and stronger than him, and also have his career in my sinister hands, he very much listened to my advice to get diesel from truck stops instead of seldom used stations. His motor trouble went away, he was lucky

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(apriusfan @ Oct 28 2007, 02:58 PM) [snapback]531679[/snapback]</div>

You got me there. It's not normally replaced as part of maintenance though.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(priusenvy @ Oct 28 2007, 04:49 PM) [snapback]531712[/snapback]</div>

True, but if you are an obsessive compulsive maintainer (like I am), you replace all fluids that could have break-in particles floating around.

 

Wow. That's one hairy tale, and I don't know if anything quite that
extreme has passed across the forums before. I mean, to the point
of pistons popping out. You've got my utmost sympathy and I will
echo the advice that the dealer techs are possibly best suited to
straightening this out since they've also got the tools to make sure
the pistons are back in and correctly sealed without contamination,
at least one hopes. You may find an indie who could deal, but
there's still a lot they probably wouldn't know about the prius
braking system. Note the relative complexity of the PDF, and the
fact that it *DOESN'T* even mention anything about actually doing a
fluid change.
.
However, we must avoid spreading misinformation. The outlined
"procedure" starting farthest away from the MC might be fine on old
non-by-wire systems, but is utterly WRONG WRONG WRONG for these.
First of all, even with the car powered off your foot never generates
pressure that actually hits the wheel cylinders -- it's all up to a
rack of solenoids and the pressure accumulator, and without in-depth
understanding of how that system works you're likely to cause more
harm than good. Second, if you've gotten air inside the actuator
block [the thing with all the solenoids and pressure sensors inside
it, see the diagram under here for details] you'll likely need the
whole scantool dance done with the three or four hands to unhook
lines, hold fingers over certain holes at the right times, etc etc.
.
We did a set of seminars the other week for a bunch of auto techs,
and one of the nights a guy asked "so how do we flush that brake
system?" ... and I had no idea what to tell him. Best answer was
"look it up", but after a little more research it wasn't even clear
to me that you *can* look that up because it just plain ain't in the
service manuals. But DOT 3 brake fluid isn't really one of those
"lifetime" things, and should probably be largely changed within 5
years by which time it's probably absorbed enough water to start
corroding internal parts.
.
Maybe galaxee/DH have some better input on flushing/bleeding if DH
has had the opportunity to do any of those things on a prius...??
.
_H*

 

oh yeah... he's had to open a brake system on a prius and rectify things afterward more times than he can count on 2 hands anyway. well... the scantool gives you the options to do the correct bleed, and also guides you through as it completes the steps it's needed for. hence the absolute need to have one to do any kind of brake fluid work. the upshot is that you only need one person to bleed brakes on a prius.

sp the repair manual directs you to the scantool because that's all it can do.

to change the fluid, one simply bleeds the lines while adding new fluid to the reservoir. there's really not much more to say about it, he says.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(hobbit @ Oct 28 2007, 07:25 PM) [snapback]531754[/snapback]</div>

The term "misinformation" implies that I didn't state that I've owned my Prius for less than 1 day and I acknowledged the fact that I wasn't sure how the brakes differed from conventional brakes. Now if I stated that "this is the way to do it" without that disclaimer that would be another story.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(priusenvy @ Oct 28 2007, 06:49 PM) [snapback]531712[/snapback]</div>

No power steering fluid in the Prius - electronic power steering.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(efusco @ Oct 28 2007, 08:30 PM) [snapback]531787[/snapback]</div>

Well.... Not to be flippant, but following the theory that a penny saved is a penny earned... an argument can credibly be made that the Prius does in fact produce gold (or copper, or nickel, or cupro-nickel...) from savings on gas purchases....

 

Okay, bleeding + adding makes sense simply because that'll push
enough fluid [sans air] through the entire system to effectively
flush it, right? Is it relatively easy to tell by color change
when the new stuff has arrived at the wheel, and how much further
bleeding is usually needed to try and make sure everything in the
wheel cylinder has been pushed out too [or is that just impossible]?
.
_H*

 

you can tell by what comes out. that's how one goes about it the old fashioned way at home on a conventional car too... we actually just did a brake flush on a late-90s civic for the upstairs neighbors this afternoon.

telling the endpoint is the same in all cases, prius or not.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Godiva @ Oct 28 2007, 02:38 PM) [snapback]531648[/snapback]</div>

If it was a Pinto Sprint, boy am I jealous!

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Pinto Girl @ Oct 28 2007, 11:49 PM) [snapback]531830[/snapback]</div>

I have no idea.

It was red. It was a 1979 and it was a hatchback. Then bought a 1984 200sx hatchback. It was totaled when I was rear ended. I then bought a 1996 Saturn SC2 coupe that had a trunk. Lousiest trunk I ever saw. Couldn't hold spit. Had it 9 years. Sold that and bought the Prius in April, 2005.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(kohnen @ Oct 28 2007, 08:24 PM) [snapback]531782[/snapback]</div>

We know that. The sub-thread you responded to was not about a Prius.