Looking for a little advice.

1. I would like to buy used. Any certain year model I should start (or limit my search) with? Meaning improvements in the design/efficiency/warranty etc?

---------The 2004 model was the first year of the hatchback redesign. There are several known problems (most are minor), but the first model of ANY redesign is always more trouble prone. Given a kid and two dogs, I'd go with a 2005 or newer.

2. Used vs New?

---------Most new cars depreciate really fast once they're driven off the lot. The Prius holds its value VERY well, at least in my neck of the woods. Even after one year of ownership, Kelley Blue Book showed that the "private party" price was within a few hundred dollars of what I paid for it. It's really nice having a brand new car!!! Because the Prius holds its value very well, used ones aren't too much less than new ones.

3. How many miles should I consider "too many"? I worry about the battery pack and having to -Heaven forbid- replace it?

---------The battery is presumed to last the life of the car. It is WARRANTED for 8 years/100,000 miles in most states (10 years/150,000 miles in CARB states), and no manufacturer is going to build something that will have lots of warranty claims. Do you worry about replacing the transmission in a conventional car? Costs about the same as a battery job in a Prius.... John1701a has a photo of someone's odometer from a Classic Prius that shows over 285,000 original miles. Cabs in Vancouver (Canada) have gone over 200,000 miles (400,000 km) with no replacement needed.

4. Any certain feature -meaning electrical efficiency/operation- I should definitely splurge on?

-----------At a MINIMUM, go for safety. That means all airbags and Vehicle Stability Control (VSC). HID headlights are really nice, and any package that includes those will have the Smart Key (which is the best thing since sliced bread!!). I don't have a backup camera, but many people really like it. The navagation system has its issues...the integrated voice response, large screen, and steering wheel commands are nice, but aftermarket portables (like Garmin) have better maps, they're cheaper to update, and many people who can well afford the nav system don't get it because they like a portable unit. BTW new DVD maps for the Prius nav are around $250-$300 a pop.

5. When test driving, what potential problems should I look for?

------------Gum under the seats. If you're going for a used one, you can call Toyota with the VIN and make sure that all the required recalls/updates have been done.

6. Final thoughts - advice?

-----------When you buy one, read the manual before you ask questions. You will endear yourself to the PriusChat community if your question starts with "I looked in the manual and couldn't find how to....." B)

People have been brainwashed that they "need" an SUV. Good on you for wanting to lessen your environmental impact!!!! The Prius is plenty big enough for just about anyone.

 

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<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(TJ Willy @ Jul 27 2007, 02:20 AM) [snapback]485992[/snapback]</div>

Simple questions: what is the make, model and year of your "stupid SUV"? Also what condition is it in? How much do you still owe on it or have you paid it off? How many miles are on it and how many do you drive on average per year?

The point is that it might be cheaper and better for the environment to keep what you have - by purchasing a new car (even a Prius) you now have initiated the building of a new vehicle which is unfriendly to the environment and now you are dumping another vehicle into the environment which will have to be dealt with - and you have done so voluntarily - it would be another thing if your current SUV was dying or dead.

BTW - I am a prius owner who heats his home (in Westchester County, NY) with wood pellets and who happens not to be a "greeny" - i bought it for the $ savings and because i needed another car and i wanted to support the technology and Toyota's efforts to make cars more efficient. if you want to buy the prius cool - its your money, its your decision. Just realize that you are not helping the environment by buying it - you are hurting it less than if you purchase a non-hybrid.

 

1. I think you would do fine with a used 2005. They are only running about $18k in mint condition. I have a 2005 and although the 2007 features would be nice, I can live without them. I would only consider upgrading if the MPG doubles.

2. The only issue about new vs used is with new you can trade in your SUV for it. Also you know the history of the vehicle. If you do go used ensure you get a thorough inspection by a certified Prius tech.

3. So far there is no limit. A taxis driver has gone more than 350k miles and his Prius/battery is doing just fine. However, the battery is warrantied for 100k miles or 10 years in California and 8 years/80k miles (?) in all other states.

4. Not really. All the features are mainly cosmetic in nature. Although some have gotten larger wheels or different tires and lost fuel economy. I would strongly consider getting the car tinted and not all tints are created equal. I got a ceramic tint Huper Optic which has a 70% energy reflectance.

5. I am not sure about problems. It is just like any other car in that respect. However, after driving it around a few months you will learn how to become anal retentive, obsessive, and possessive. You will become cranky when you get lower than 50 MPG.

6. Just get it and enjoy it. If eeking out the max performance is you bag then enjoy that too (there is a whole forum for those guys).

BTW, I have 2 kids, 1 dog, and 3 cats and have not had a problem. Although normally only the kids and dog go on any roadtrips. We did get a Yakima landing pad system to mount racks for bikes and cargo pod.

As for whether or not to take the plunge decide if it is for the money savings or environment. As stated earlier it may be cheaper to just continue with your SUV depending on how fast of a payback period you are looking for. Generally it is a 3-6 yr payback when comparing the Prius with a comparable mid-sized sedan, let alone if you owe on an SUV. I got it for a little of both reasons and bragging rights to my coworkers for driving 700 miles on 10-gal.

 

Just to supplement a couple of points previously made.

Safety: If you buy new, Package #2 is indeed the sweet spot in terms of safety --- it has electronic stability control (widely touted as the greatest safety improvement since seat belts), and it has the back-up camera (great for the safety of others, especially in the case of the Prius which has pretty terrible rear view sightlines). The higher numbered, more expensive packages do not have any additional safety features.

Also, if you get the Prius and it has the OEM Goodyear Integrities on them, consider replacing them immediately with a good all-season tire that performs well in rain, ice and snow. I personally recommend the Goodyear Assurance TripleTreds. But there are several other tires frequently recommended by other PriusChat posters, including the Goodyear ComforTred and the Michelin HydroEdge.

New vs Old: With the high re-sale value of the Prius, it may make much more sense to buy new, especially if you factor in the Tax Credit and Toyota incentives (but you should check on their current availibility).

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(TJ Willy @ Jul 27 2007, 01:20 AM) [snapback]485992[/snapback]</div>

We never get tired of these posts

I bought a 2005 a couple of months ago with 24,000 miles for $17,900. Get a 1 month subscription to Carfax so you can check the VINs. I looked for something with under 36,000 miles so the warranty would still be in place just in case.

I only regret I didn't do it soo ner.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(TJ Willy @ Jul 27 2007, 01:20 AM) [snapback]485992[/snapback]</div>

We never get tired of these posts

I bought a 2005 a couple of months ago with 24,000 miles for $17,900. Get a 1 month subscription to Carfax so you can check the VINs. I looked for something with under 36,000 miles so the warranty would still be in place just in case.

I only regret I didn't do it soo ner.

 

One thing bears discussion, and that is side air bags. Go to the Consumer Reports site, view the crash test videos of the Prius (or any other car for that matter) with and without side air bags. Think about your family. Revise your options list.

 

1. I would like to buy used. Any certain year model I should start (or limit my search) with? Meaning improvements in the design/efficiency/warranty etc?

Certainly 2004 or later, to get the 'second generation' model, which is not only larger than the original but also more fuel efficient. With each model year, more became standard (such as the full compliment of airbags which is standard on 2007 but part of a package in earlier years). All second generation models have the same design, fuel efficiency and warranty.

2. Used vs New?

Personally I'd go for new. The main reason for buying used is to avoid the initial major hit of depreciation driving a new car off the lot - why take that hit when someone can do it for you?! However, the Prius doesn't suffer this anything like as much as most, so the price of most recent used Prius cars is not much below the price of new. New means you know exactly what the vehicle history is and can control every aspect of how it is treated. Used saves you a bit of money, but even after getting the car inspected by a competent tech, you can't know for sure if there are any historical issues with it.

Used makes more sense if you're aiming to get into a Prius for as little as possible - in which case a 2004 Prius would certainly fit the bill.

3. How many miles should I consider "too many"? I worry about the battery pack and having to -Heaven forbid- replace it?

The notion of a fixed number of miles you shouldn't buy above really doesn't work. The Prius (both original and current generation) have proven remarkably reliable despite the complex engineering, and there are no shortage of examples of high mileage cars out there with no problems to speak of. Indeed, some of the car's technologies actually help bolster reliability somewhat - regenerative braking means less wear and tear on braking systems for example, while the high voltage battery being used to spin up the engine, power the AC etc all helps to reduce mechanical loads.

If buying used, the way the vehicle has been kept and used is likely a far better indicator of viability than mileage.

4. Any certain feature -meaning electrical efficiency/operation- I should definitely splurge on?

I would not recommend buying a model with just the basic package for one simple reason - if you want additional features later, you can't add them. I'd go for one with SKS, which seems a gimmick but it really is convenient never to have to actually handle the key to get in and start the car or get out and lock it - I also recommend the backup camera since even though it's not much use in judging angles and distance due to the fish-eye nature of the image, it is very good at covering blind spots when reversing - particularly useful in parking lots when it can see past nearby vehicles and you can't. If it's a used vehicle from previous years, make sure it has all the safety stuff such as vehicle stability control, full compliment of side and side-curtain airbags etc. If you're an inveterate cellphone user when driving, go for a car that has the bluetooth handsfree system - it's really very effective (assuming you have a BT phone of course)!

Avoid the factory Nav system unless you drive a Prius with one and really like it. It's expensive for what it does (as most factory systems are) and is somewhat quirky. Some like it, some don't!

5. When test driving, what potential problems should I look for?

If you've never driven a Prius before, the first time behind the wheel will be an interesting experience to be sure! By all means play with the electronics (we all do!) but when driving the car, concentrate more on how it feels on the road and responds to what you're doing than to the screen which can be very distracting!

I'd suggest that you drive a couple of new ones at local dealers to get the feel of the car and the presence of all the toys before you go shopping for a used one if that's what you decide to buy. That way you'll have the initial experience of all the gadgets to play with and the multiple screens of information and controls in addition to the feel of new. After that, you'll be able to focus more when driving used ones on how they compare to the new models, and thus be more sensitive to extra noises, vibrations or issues.

6. Final thoughts - advice?

I traded a 4 year-old small SUV for mine. It was fully paid so to get my Prius I had to accept a car payment again, making it a less economic proposition than the SUV in the short term at least. However, realistically, the fact that each month I save about $100 in fuel costs and have to refuel far less frequently gives better peace of mind. In addition, the low emissions of the Prius make the car a more responsible way to get about. Above all, for me, is that the Prius has helped me change the way I drive - not really to obtain the best fuel efficiency, but the energy use feedback the car gives has basically helped train me to become less aggressive on the road, and to drive in a far more relaxed and attentive manner. I feel much better for that.

If keeping the SUV feels a sensible option in the context of the economics of it, you do have to consider the fact that at some point the SUV will become less reliable and need replacing. Facing that reality means you may find it worthwhile to consider replacing it with a more fuel-efficient vehicle sooner rather than later.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Doc Willie @ Jul 27 2007, 08:59 AM) [snapback]486044[/snapback]</div>

I second that re side curtain air bags to protect your head, as compared to just side air bags which protect your torso. The side curtain air bags (standard), electronic stability control (Package 2 and up), and the back-up camera (Package 2 and up) are, as noted parenthetically above, standard or cheaply available on the 2007 Prius. They are the latest holy trinity of safety features, and are usually only found, if at all, on much higher priced cars than the Prius.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(TJ Willy @ Jul 27 2007, 11:02 AM) [snapback]486102[/snapback]</div>

That is, I think, not an uncommon factor in the first test drive of one. As much as the car actually drives much the same as any other, there are so many detail differences to take in - the screen and constantly changing contents, the power button, the instruments, the gear change, the lax of orthodoxy in general - that it's easy to find the focus of that first experience more on those details than the car. I found the second test drive far more informative overall having got the 'new stuff' moment out of the way!

Once you've got a couple of test drives done, you'll start finding how the energy data on the screen relates to specific behaviors of the car, how sharp acceleration affects fuel use, how anticipation and gentle deceleration helps recover energy and feel more of how the car reacts to you.

I was very impressed with all the gadgetry on my first drive, but really didn't think much about the car itself, while on the second I found myself impressed with the car for it's on the road behavior.

Try hustling it through corners to feel how the suspension and steering work - some people report soft suspension causing body roll and indistinct steering feel, while others (including me) say their cars are fine. Get on a highway in traffic to see how it's affected by wind and turbulence - some report issues with this, while others (including me) say their cars are fine.

As to MSRP, it depends on the dealer. I couldn't get any kind of a deal out of my local dealer in town, and when I tried he simply said I was lucky they weren't pricing them higher since they could sell every one they got. But a dealer out of town in a more rural setting who sold fewer of them (and more Tundras, being more suited to his customer base) were happy to go under MSRP to sell one.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(dbermanmd @ Jul 27 2007, 04:29 AM) [snapback]486015[/snapback]</div>

In my opinion this is a silly straw man arguement. Toyota is producing Prii at their plants full capacity. They are selling every car they put on their dealership lots. Your buying or not buying a prius will have no effect on this. Selling your old SUV will not damage the environment. If you keep it, you will drive it. If you sell it, somone else will drive it. Net effect, exactly zero. In fact, it is likely that your SUV will be replacing another, older vehicle, which will be an improvement.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Doc Willie @ Jul 27 2007, 05:59 AM) [snapback]486044[/snapback]</div>

I completely agree with Doc. Side curtain airbags are the one option I consider critical to this car. Watch the video of the side impact crash tests on the CR site Here.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(TJ Willy @ Jul 27 2007, 08:41 AM) [snapback]486127[/snapback]</div>

Unfortunately, there is not and never has been a buyer's market in the Prius. I was able to pay dealer's invoice, but demand is too high on these cars to get any real deals. You will find the Prius to be one of the hardest cars to negotiate price on - good luck.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(mcbrunnhilde @ Jul 27 2007, 03:49 AM) [snapback]486000[/snapback]</div>

I just want to add that the battery has a very long warranty... not just Toyota reliability creditial but a warrenty. In a ICE only car, the transmission is covered by 3 years 36,000 miles.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(TJ Willy @ Jul 27 2007, 11:41 AM) [snapback]486127[/snapback]</div>

I bought a 2007 a couple of weeks ago in the North East for closer to invoice than MSRP. This seems to be a very regional thing and most local dealers were not discounting to start with, though they may have during haggling.

 

I looked on Craigslist to get a feel for pricing on used and features and decided on a new one. There was only a couple thousand bucks difference. I wound up with a new 2007 w/ pkg 6 for 28k out the door. Checked Craigslist a few days later and there was a 2006 w/ 14k miles for 35k bucks, I think a wheel slipped a cog somewhere...