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Kent Hovind Creation Science

Discussion in 'Fred's House of Pancakes' started by TheForce, Mar 23, 2007.

  1. TheForce

    TheForce Stop War! Lets Rave! Make Love!

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    I know there are other topics about religion and evolution but I would like to know what people think of Kent Hovind? I'm asking the ones who really have an open mind, think outside the box and is willing to listen to new ideas ( really not that new if you believe in creation ) and theories, and those of you who have actually watched all 7 parts of his seminar. For those of you that haven't seen his seminar you can download all 7 parts here at DrDino.com

    To start off I actually like the guy. He explains things very well and has done tons of research on the subject of evolution and creation. I feel that if I had him as a teacher through high school I would have passed every class with an A+. Yes I think we all know he is in jail right now for "tax fraud" but I don't hold that against him. He did what he thought was his right under Gods word. I actually support him for that but I don't think he should have fought the taxes. He could have helped us better by staying on the outside and let someone else try to fight our government. With that said I don't want to go on about him being in jail and lets stay off that topic.

    I was raised Christian and went to church every Sunday and Wednesday. I learned a lot from the Bible but I've always been an "out side the box" thinker. I like to think logically. I'm willing to listen to new or old ideas. During school we get evolution crammed down us from 1st grade to when we graduate from college. I accepted these new "facts" about evolution because that is what science taught us. It was in the text books so it had to be true right? Well I thought that yes if given billions of years we can evolve into what we are today. I still believe that there is a God but somehow he might have made us to evolve. Very confusing.

    A few years ago while working at the local computer shop this one customer came in and some how we got to talking about evolution or creation. ( a note before I continue I thought the guy was crazy to begin with. you know one of those "the government is out to get us" type of people but still very religious ) But he offered me a set of Kent Hovinds seminar on VHS. I never heard of Kent Hovind and thought it was some kind of nut job video. I decided to go ahead and take the VHS tapes because hay free VHS tapes. :) Anyway the open minded person I am I decided to watch the videos just to see what kind of nut job this guy really was. ( both customer and this Kent Hovind guy ) Boy was I wrong. Kent Hovind really knows his stuff! He had me hooked in the first few minutes. He is very quick on his topics but he does explain everything very well.

    Kent has made me rethink the whole evolution thing. I now believe that creation is the more believable answer. It does bring up some other questions like if we were created who created the creator? Who created the creators creator? etc... OR if the creator has always been or was just created out of luck like evolution then isn't it possible that we were created by chance by evolving? Those questions are another topic all together so lets not go there.

    From watching his videos everything that I was taught in school about evolution has been proven wrong many years ago. I have even looked up a few just to see if he was correct and he was. A few things off the top of my head would be the "gill slits" in the early human fetus. That was proven wrong over 100 years ago but its still being taught in NEW text books! The so called "geologic column" that gets pushed to us. The only place that the column exists is in the textbooks. There is no place on earth where you will find the bones in the correct "order" that the text books say. This brings up the dating issue. They date the fossils by what layer of rock they are in and they date the rocks by what fossils are found in them. That's called circular reasoning.

    Another example and this is the big one for me is that each layer is X amount of billions of years old. then why do we find petrified trees standing upright through many layers of rock and coal? Trees dont just stand there and do nothing for billions of years. They rot after a few years. Also trees are found upside down through these layers. The only way that could happen is if the tree was water logged and sunk upside down in the mud from a huge flood. Hmmm there must have been a huge flood then right? about 4000 years ago?

    Yet another big one for me is the grand canyon. It was formed over millions of years right? Then answer this. How does water flow uphill? The middle of the grand canyon is higher than the start or the ending of that river. Water wants to flow down hill and if there is something in its way it either gets dammed up or it flows to the lowest spot. The only way that the grand canyon could be formed is from a massive flood. The middle of the canyon acted as a damn after the great flood. When the damn broke the water created the canyon in a few months. Kent can explain it better than I can.

    I also like his theory about how the flood began. To sum it up he thinks that the earth was hit by a comet which created the ice caps on the pols. This also helps the theory about how mammoths get frozen still alive while standing upright.

    Man this is a long post.

    There are many more things I would like to talk about that I have learned. Especially on how we were created and how evolution just cant possibly create a living organism just by chance and billions of years.

    Kent has pointed me toward creation again but I'm still open to new ideas and theories. although I doubt that I could ever believe true evolution.

    One thing that I believe more than anything that he has taught me is that we need to get the lies out of our text books. He also made me realize that evolution is a religion not science. I know if people don't want creation religion taught in the class room why should I pay taxes so the evolution religion can be taught? I know when I have kids I want them to be open minded about the whole thing but to have the textbooks teach that evolution is a FACT and the evidence is true when it has been proven wrong a hundred years ago is just plan wrong. We should be teaching FACTS in school not a bunch of made up stuff because doesn't Science mean knowledge? Should that knowledge be proven and truthful?

    I think you know my view of Kent by now. If not I like the guy. :) Yes I have read all the anti Hovind websites but non of them are open minded or think outside the box. They have no valid point when they say Hovind is a nut.

    I'm currently watching Kent Hovinds CSE class 103. If anyone would like to watch these classes I would be willing to tell you how to download them. Just ask.

    So what do you think about Kent Hovind? Please post only if you actually watched his seminar. If you only watched a few minutes and or just read the "he is a nut job" websites please don't post as I would like to know what people really think of him after seeing the information he gives. Yes the seminar is very long and it might take a few weeks to watch but I don't think it will be a waste of your time. If your open minded to ideas you will be glad to have watched it. I know I am.

    Depending how well this discussion goes I would like to talk more on Kents theory and teachings.
     
  2. IsrAmeriPrius

    IsrAmeriPrius Progressive Member

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  3. F8L

    F8L Protecting Habitat & AG Lands

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    I'm sorry I only read about 1/4 of your post but you asked how we felt about him so I'll answer.

    I've watched the first 3 parts to his series and his "facts" are so far off I was speachless after the first one. He has a major attitude problem and his lack of tact was appalling. When he made the joke about the little girl Jessica (the one that got stuck in the pipe) I was ready to sock him in his arrogant face.

    Please do yourself a huge favor and actually study the science he claims to know and you'll quickly find that his "pseudoscience" is completely wrong.

    This isn't a rant on you. Just this particular guy and creationism or ID in general because of the wackjobs they have promoting this stuff.

    You can start with this funny video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TNZCcTcOPV0 then dive right into Richard Dawkins for a balancing viewpoint. http://richarddawkins.net/home
     
  4. F8L

    F8L Protecting Habitat & AG Lands

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(theforce @ Mar 23 2007, 05:01 PM) [snapback]411211[/snapback]</div>
    None of them are openminded or think outside the box? I didn't know thinking outside the box required lying and twisting facts to push a biased viewpoint.

    No my friend, this guy is just another charismatic religious charlatan. I'll lump him in with Pat Robertson and any other religious nut like him.

    Sorry for the name calling but I'm rather sick of this crap and just don't feel like being civil right now.
     
  5. geologyrox

    geologyrox New Member

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    I wish you'd be ok with people responding with "He's a nutjob." While I have not seen all of his videos/lectures, I've seen enough to know that he's either a nutjob or he enjoys lying and calling it the truth. I'll give regular christians the benefit of the doubt and figure this one is a bad seed and go with nutjob.

    See, he doesn't actually know any science - all of his education has been in the field of religious education. He doesn't even actually have a doctorate - his religious PhD in Christian Education is from an unacredited university. There's a cute photo of the mobile home that university currently resides in somewhere on the internet.

    I posted these a while back, especially appropriate here:

    http://www.notgneiss.com/pics/front.jpg
    http://www.notgneiss.com/pics/back.jpg

    I especially like the fact about how the t-rex will bleed to death if you pull his arm off. Oh, and the fire-breathing, that's pretty cool too. Just for reference, at my best guess I've taken about 90 hours more credit in university science courses than Dr. Dino. Too bad I didn't get to learn about the apatosaurs living in the Congo....


    EDIT: If you are interested in learning the facts BEHIND both Hovind's claims and basic evolutionary theory, I'd love an opportunity to walk you through some idea or another. If you have your heart set on creationism, there are real (though 'better' is questionable) scientists who at least work within the bounds of observable evidence.
     
  6. airportkid

    airportkid Will Fly For Food

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    Please do not malign the word "science" by using the phrase "creation science." There is to date no such thing as "creation science" and there won't be until someone somewhere starts doing controlled experiments with endpoints designed such that they can FALSIFY the concept as well as add empirical evidence that favors the concept. But no creationist today employs anything remotely resembling science, so don't use the word science as a descriptor of creationist belief.

    Mark Baird
    Alameda CA
     
  7. galaxee

    galaxee mostly benevolent

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    i went over to his site and searched for an argument about DNA homology.

    funny... there isn't one. to me, the most compelling evidence is right there in the nucleus. studying molecular biology further convinced me of the validity of the evolution theory.
     
  8. F8L

    F8L Protecting Habitat & AG Lands

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(galaxee @ Mar 23 2007, 06:50 PM) [snapback]411253[/snapback]</div>
    Same here... symbiogenesis is particularly interesting.


    I like when Kent mentions there are no trees older than 4,000yrs old yet there is one ("Methuselah") currently living that is about 700yrs older than he states and one was cut down that was even older ("Prometheus"). This is a classic point where he takes some real information then twists it. Most people realize there are really old trees alive today but they don't know the exact age so he plays on that.

    We could start in on the clonal organisms and their age but that is superfluous to this arguement. lol
     
  9. tcjennings

    tcjennings New Member

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    Maybe so, but if you chose to go to college you would be considerably behind the curve; and if not you would be able to look forward to a lifetime of ignorance. Kent Hovind hasn't the slightest passing familiarity with science. Have you heard him in debates? I watched a debate with him and Michael Shermer (editor of Skeptic magazine) and Kent's first words were "I'm not here to debate evolution, I'm hear to win hearts for Christ" -- so why do you keep telling lies about evolution, Kent?

    I'm sorry you find his arguments compelling, but in reality they're disingenuous or outright false.
     
  10. IsrAmeriPrius

    IsrAmeriPrius Progressive Member

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    Hovind is currently serving a ten years sentence at the Pensacola Federal Prison Camp at Saufley Field, Pensacola, Florida, for 58 tax offenses, obstructing federal agents and related charges.

    Wikipedia®
     
  11. daniel

    daniel Cat Lovers Against the Bomb

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    Kent Hovind does not tell the truth. He tells lies to support his religious fundamentalism. Period.

    I recommend an excellent book: The Panda's Thumb by the late Stephen Jay Gould. It is a marvellously fun and well-written book. It consists of a number of short essays, so you need not have a long attention span.