Just bought a 2010 Insight, my review.

I think the EPA estimates say the Prius (2004-2010) is the better highway MPG performer than ANY current Honda IMA product. Not my opinion, just the standardized test results. Correct me if I'm wrong.

 

Reviews from various mags have put the mpg between Gen-II Prius and Insight very close to each other.
adric22, thanks for your review. If you owned a Gen-II before, your review would be even more interesting to me. Thanks, nonetheless.

 

nice! welcome, and i look forward to reading more about your car

the term mild hybrid simply comes from the way the drivetrain is designed. it's a "mild hybrid" because the ICE (internal combustion engine) never shuts off, ie the car cannot be propelled under only electric power. While the term hybrid has been somewhat stretched (ie malibu) it doesn't negate the fact that the insight is a mild hybrid. When people use the term its just describing the technology in your car, not necessarially trashing it.

its still technically a mild hybrid. a VERY well designed one however

true on most parts. although the prius can with the right drivers/conditions outperform an insight simply because it CAN turn the ICE off at stoplights, etc.

sounds good, i was surprised myself with how "peppy" the prius was, i wasn't expecting much.

i would say almost, but it's close, probably too close for the average driver to produce a difference

ok. sounds like you made the right choice for your situation

i agree on this last point. well written comparison, but i'll warn ya- you're going to run into a lot of Pro-Prius people on here (including quite a few with knowledge/experience/info to back up thier opinions)

 

If you've read any of my posts on the Insight, you'll see that I'm a big Honda fan and I hope the Insight does well. I say that just to establish I do not have a bias against either the car or the company.

I am very happy for you that you are pleased with your new Insight! It is very unfortunate you had to lose your Prius as you did, but the benefit to you is the chance for a newer car. With that said, however, I think your Insight, though new, is not the latest technology. There is no need to be on the bleeding edge, but for purposes of comparison, I think it will be difficult to compare the new Insight with the 2010 Prius.

Perhaps the new Insight compares favorably with the Gen I Prius, but the Gen II Prius was such an improvement over the original, that your comparison starts to fade a bit. The 2010 is a significant improvement over the Gen II, so I will beg to differ with some of your comparisons.

Still, I am very glad to hear of your enthusiasm for the Insight, and I am hopeful it means the car will find a solid following.

I'm certain there will be a number of posts in this thread pointing out the technical superiority of the 2010 Prius (much of it is likely to be true), so I'll try to stay away from those responses. The critical things you've pointed out have to do with the look and amenities of the Insight which differ from those offered in the Prius. These differences should provide both some healthy competition and a greater opportunity for more people to be satisfied.

I, for one, am much more interested in driving a full hybrid where I can not only drive in EV mode, but also glide without having to deal with a constantly spinning ICE. Yes, in the Prius the ICE still spins at higher speeds, but at 41 mph and lower, you really can save enormous energy by just coasting. Not only that, but every time I sit at a traffic light or a drive-through, or simply in a parking lot, I can experience a pollution-free idle!

I also like the high-tech end of things, so the Prius, in this regard, is much more attractive. I would like to have all the gadgets (if I can afford it), and I am not comparing the pared-down models of both cars. We'll have to wait and see how Toyota prices the base models, but I would guess Toyota will work hard to be not much above the Insight. In that case I think you'll find that the MUCH higher MPGs in the Prius will make the purchase price difference go away very quickly.

I've said many, many times in this forum that the best way to go about minimizing dollars spent on a car is to buy a Honda. Not a new Insight, but a used Civic. Perhaps the Insight will, eventually, fill that role, but for now a hybrid doesn't offer the best car purchase in terms of simply lowest dollars spent.

In sum: Congrats to you! Enjoy your Insight and feel good about driving a car you've chosen for its style and peculiarities. I'll do the same as I scoot around in my '07 (for now) Prius. We are both helping move forward not only the technology, but also the social acceptance of the hybrid drivetrain (drivetrains?).

 

The Engine always has to be in motion. burning fuel or not, without the dead weight the electrics would do better. The EV mode not being as effective does make me question it. According to several reviews (consumer reports, Car and Driver, Cars.com and people here that have driven some of each) the prius is still the best hybrid out there mileage wise, the insight at 41 and the new prius (15 inch tires) at 50. I like the insights instrument cluster better but a friend of mine said that it looks like it was designed by a drunken WWII Uboat commander.

I am going to try them both out, and i loved the old Insight but i think i'm going to foolishly trade in my 07 prius for a 10. something about a perfect 10 i always liked...

 

Hey thanks for the details of the new Insight. That's why it is better to describe IMA, ASSIST hybrid.

Some of the facts you can not get around with the IMA system in the Insight:

- The electric motor is rated at 13hp max
- The HV battery pack has 2.5x less energy than the Prius
- Very limited regen braking due to 13hp motor/generator
- I don't think it has electric A/C due to anemic battery pack
- Limited Stealth mode (EV mode requires ICE at 0 RPM) due to anemic battery pack

You could probably have gotten 09 Prius (with year end model incentives) for less than the Insight.

 

Thanks for the review. I hope you will stay around and provide more information and answer questions.

As pointed out above, it's too bad you didn't have a Gen II Prius before, as there are major improvements with the Gen II. To be completely fair, we need the 2010 Prius to compare to your 2010 Insight.

Tom

 

I'd like to second the thanks and the request you stay around to respond to questions (not necessarily the barbs!) and offer your views of the new Insight.

To the OP:

Even if you could have gotten a 2009 Prius for about the same price, if the Insight is a car you're going to enjoy more, then more power to you! Too many of us are just wildly stuck on that perfect Prius parked out front of our homes, so please be patient with us!

I doubt you'll convince me the Insight is better than my '07 Prius, much less the 2010, but don't worry about it. Heck, don't even try -- I'm just too much of a Prius fan! But I'm really a nut about getting rid of the useless waste of the standard ICE-driven automobile, and when a great company like Honda makes such a strong commitment as its new Insight, I'll be cheering for it to become the #2 selling hybrid in the U.S.

 

That issue with "mild" and "electric only" stems from the size of the motor itself...

10 kW = 2010 Insight
33 kW = 2003 Prius
50 kW = 2004 Prius
60 kW = 2010 Prius

...the rest comes from the ample supply of electric available from the more active hybrid system, allowing the electric A/C to take advantage.

Insight is exactly what Honda labels it as, an ASSIST hybrid. That's the "A" in IMA.
.

 

I think if something were to happen to my shiny new Prius, I would go test drive an Insight. I definitely like the instrument layout.


Regarding the Insight, I think it does what Honda wants it to: Gets great fuel economy and is relatively simple and thus inexpensive. I did expect the price to be about $1k lower in the US. Regardless, I hope it does do well.

 

You're correct. It's also true on the Prius.
However, there is a big advantage on the EV mode switch. The 2010 Prius and the modified Gen-II have the switch which is able to move the car on parking lot without engine starting, especially good late at night or early in the morning in the residential area.

Ken@Japan

 

Thanks for the great informative write-up!

One point not credited to the Insight is the Blue/Green fade feature of the instrument cluster that makes it a "no brainer" for anyone to keep the Insight in an efficient operating mode. All you have to remember is: Green is Good, Blue is Bad.

 

EV mode improves MPG during less than 15 mph traffic jam in stop and go traffic. It is better to recharge the battery later when cruising at 50-60 mph than turning engine on and off during the jam.

EV mode is also very useful to move your car for parking or drive up the ramp to change oil.

 

As far as the EPA is concerned I believe you are correct.

However, just as the Gen 2 Prius had the same rating as the Gen 4 IMA on the highway, the community quickly found out that the IMA system was able to achieve much more that what it was rated for.

Now, early indications from expert test drives is that that particular situation still remains when comparing the 2010 Insight and the 2010 Prius. The Gen 3 Prius is now much better than the Gen 2 on the highway but apparently not yet enough to conclusively and definitively take down a 2010 Honda Insight. I can't wait to hear more from the experts or to live with a 2010 Prius to really confirm this.

In any case, I am hoping that we can find an "Easter Egg" mode or behavior on the 2010 (a new SHM) as I think the car is worth a heck of a lot more than what the EPA estimates.

Cheers;

MSantos

 

Under ideal condition (Spring) the mpg gap between the 2010 Insight and 2010 Prius may be small.

Let's wait until the heat wave and snow flakes arrives. There is no secret that 2010 Prius was designed from mpg tanking in extreme temps. We will have to see how well it does all year round.

I believe the Insight has belt driven A/C and a tiny battery pack. Let's see how well it does in 100 deg F stop and go traffic of 10 mins duration.

The Insight has no way of retaining (thermo bottle) or recovering the heat (EHR) otherwise lost to the environment. Let's see how the Insight does in the Winter traffic jams or short trips with the heater on.

In the previous generations, hybrids were launched in Fall and the reviews roll in at around Winter. It looks like Honda and Toyota learned from that this time. The Insight has more advantage because it is smaller and lighter.

I think the Prius' "Easter Egg" is in the extreme temps rather than in ideal temp. Well, I hope we find another egg in ideal temp as well.

 

Totally agree. Much of this still remains to be seen through the work and observations of many in the community.

However, lets us also apply what we already do know and move on from here, and that is that an IMA equipped car will never be able to beat an HSD vehicle on a traffic jam condition under ideal temperature conditions. This is one area where our experience backs up the paper specifications. Add heat or AC and it will be carnage.

The situation changes somewhat when the ambient temps and commute distance force more frequent ICE idling. At this point the contest is much tighter and something that has been traditionally a win for the IMAs. Toyota knows this has been a sore spot with the Prius II and one that we know has been radically addressed in the 2010 Prius... What remains to be seen is how much FE potential that translates into in the hands of experts and common folks alike. But, I have no doubt the design changes will make the 2010 Prius THE stand-out performer in low ambient temp conditions if not the absolute best.

Yes, the battery pack is smaller on the Insight but unless you are always deadlocked in a traffic jam routine, keeping off the pack remains the best way to achieve higher MPG and lower emissions in just about any hybrid on the road today. The ICE remains the primary power source and avoiding a forced charge at any cost is still the best we can do to minimize losses. It just amazes me when people WANT to run on electric each and every time and then complain the FE is not high enough.

By "Easter Egg" I was referring to the discovery of a sweet spot in the highway FE/Speed range that takes the Prius III though the FE roof. Similar to what the SHM (Super Highway Mode) technique did for the Prius II but in an easier way to lock and over a wider range of speeds.

Cheers;

MSantos

 

glad you are happy with your car. if you do something that greatly increases your mileage, i dont care what you drive. i wish you had experience with the Classic Pri's so a better comparison could be had. by all accounts, the 2003's and 2004+'s were hardly the same car in any respect.

definitely keep us posted on your experiences

 

A poster focused on narrowing gap under ideal condition. I was pointing out the wider gap when the conditions are not so ideal. The A/C and battery pack got worse in 2010 Insight compared to 2009 Civic hybrid while the Prius made improvement.

Yes, it is the best not to have traffic jam at all but that is not how the real world traffic works. I am going to stop here because it is going back to ideal condition topic.

There may be a few lucky ones that have close to ideal traffic everyday. However, that market will be much smaller and we know 2010 Prius is designed to attract a very wide range of buyers.

I would think so since the ICE has more torque to maintain wider range of speeds without having HSD out of the heretical mode.