Just a thought about plug in hybrids

The beauty of a plug-in hybrid would be that wouldn't be unusable.

 

the point of a plug in hybrid would be that if you decided to plug it in, you would get better mileage. It would essentially be a current prius with a bigger battery pack. so power outages wouldn't effect your ability to drive, just the mileage you got.

 

Bonus: You can buy an inverter, and use your plug-in as a back-up generator during a power outage.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Dragonfly @ Aug 6 2006, 11:11 PM) [snapback]298842[/snapback]</div>

Dragonfly... you stole my thunder. I was thinking the exact same thing, that having the plug-in when the grid was down, could be an advantage, just as you pointed out. Suddenly your nice 'cool' house with your 4-wheeled generator would be the envy of the neighborhood.

 

Plug-in vehicles can easily HELP the grid, as has been mentioned here. And to echo others again... a plug-in hybrid is plug-optional (I prefer to call them gas-optional actually) - can be driven just like today's hybirds if you want - gasoline all the way, baby!. And for a third (unique!) point, I'll mention that gas pumps won't work without electricity either. Oh... and during high-usage grid-overloads... the sun is usually shining still. Which means some folks can still make their fuel without any grid connection.

Figure out how to fix the grid issues. Don't think of plug-in vehicles as part of the problem. They aren't. they can be part of the fix! (unlike AC units, poll pumps, gasoline stations, etc.)

 

Plug-Ins, once endorsed in large quantity, will contribute significantly to the investment in renewable sources of electricity. Sadly, the market for stuff like wind-turbines is currently still at status quo. A growth explosion in that area would have a bonus of helping out during the high-demand times.

It's a win-win situation... eventually.

 

Got a question for you Darrell.

If there is a power outage, but you've got PV panels, would they power your house? If you generate enough during the day to make the meter spin backwards and zero out the energy bill at the end of the year. So instead of the meter running backwards during the day it would just....sit there?

Oh...and my Dad wants to know if there are any wind turbines for home use. I said I'll bet there are and I know just the people to ask. He wants to put on on or near the Garage to generate some power for his workshop. Or something. Not sure. I don't think he's sure until he can find out if they make small ones for homeowners. (His friends says he bets turbines aren't allowed due to code or zoning or something. My Dad had mentioned he wanted to drill down to the water table and pump his own water but his friend said he bets that isn't allowed within city limits either.)

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Godiva @ Aug 6 2006, 10:45 PM) [snapback]298897[/snapback]</div>

Totally depends on your system. If you have a simple grid-tie system like mine, the AC output of your inverter is cut off if the grid goes down. The entire reason is for safetey of the line workers (they are not expecting power to be coming BACK from the consumer end of the line). If you have battery bakup, your inverter will continue to charge the batteries that can power your house even if the grid goes down.

Not sure I understand. If you are connected to the grid, your meter will spin whichever direction it needs to go. If you are disconnected from the grid, the meter holds still as you are not feeding nor taking any power to or from the grid. If you have enough PV to power the house without the grid, then you are good to go. If you don't have enough to power the house, then you aren't so good to go. Either way, the meter doesn't spin if the grid is down.

Yes. They get better, smaller and quieter each year. There are some great little turbines out now. Google will turn them up. (sounds like your dad needs to get himself some more optimistic friends!)

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(darelldd @ Aug 7 2006, 01:23 AM) [snapback]298918[/snapback]</div>

Okay. So when the grid goes down would I still have power to my house if I only have the simple tie in? Or do I have to have the back-up battery and a more sophisticated system in order to have power for the house?

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(momfortheenvironment @ Aug 7 2006, 04:45 AM) [snapback]298832[/snapback]</div>

Now that you bring this up... I can't resist to jump on it of course...
Those power outages really show how far we are from an EV driven society. Apart from the real issues, the fear that comes from having a car that is totally dependent on the grid would prevent most people from buying one.

But that's also why I believe that plugin-hybrids are so great. They take away all the uncertainty and uncomfortable aspects of EV's, and yet they could drive on grid electricity most of the time. This is something you can sell to people.

About gas stations during a power outage: you can do like I do: have a couple of jerrycans in your garage with that stinking fossile oil stuff. I use them for my lawn mower tractor, but they can bring my car a long way just in case...

For Darell: I swear, I wasn't going to start about the recent power outages... But seeing someone else start a thread about it was too much for me...

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Godiva @ Aug 7 2006, 03:19 AM) [snapback]298929[/snapback]</div>

Now if the grid goes down you would still need some sort of storage device/generator/etc to draw on for powering the house. The grid is no longer your friend in this situation. However your plug-in could be. Also the use of solar cells or wind, as mentioned, could power the plug-in charging. Even if you weren't zero energy, the cells and turbine would help create electricity, which in turn would power the car, that powers the house that powers the air, fridge, etc. Lastly, of course you don't need a plug-in to do this, there are generators and storage devices out there that aren't as portable as a car. But just not as hip and cool.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Godiva @ Aug 7 2006, 12:19 AM) [snapback]298929[/snapback]</div>

By code, a simple grid-tie system must go off-line when the grid goes down. If you have a V2G EV parked in the garage, or a battery bank, you can maintain PV generation and power to your home (as you also disconnect this back-feed from the grid).

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(vtie @ Aug 7 2006, 02:01 AM) [snapback]298939[/snapback]</div>

No problem at all. We'll just revisit this during the next nation-wide oil/refinery/gasoline hiccup and compare notes.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(darelldd @ Aug 6 2006, 11:23 PM) [snapback]298918[/snapback]</div>

There are problems with HOAs and CC&Rs allowing turbines, as well as city ordinances and county laws; but like satellites dishes, that may be overcome with proper legislation. Perhaps we can start letter campaigns NOW, so that when the really efficient turbines become cost effective (and small enough for a standard lot), we can install them without all of the legal brouhaha.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Godiva @ Aug 7 2006, 12:45 AM) [snapback]298897[/snapback]</div>

Best bet is to search "residential wind power" (sometimes they're called windmills, or wind turbines, or wind-something-else).

As for the well, it depends on the zoning. Around here (Chicago suburbs) 1-acre and larger lots often have their own well and septic. The size is needed for an adequate septic field, but if he uses a well and city sewer it might be a different matter. But it's likely either way the city would have some say in the matter. A windmill would be pretty visible too, although not much different from a large TV or ham radio antennae. Once the well is drilled, it isn't really noticeable to neighbors or the city workers passing thru the area, but a windmill would be. Best for him to check into it (maybe bring some pictures along if it falls into a grey zone and he has to sell the idea to a dubious clerk).

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(wstander @ Aug 7 2006, 08:07 AM) [snapback]299007[/snapback]</div>

They already are.

 

My Dad has an average lot but it's on the lip of a canyon that is a natural park. I don't know exactly how big these things get, but I don't think either size or height will be an issue unless we're talking 50-100 feet up and needing a big honkin' pole.

I am so wanting PV on my roof I could spit. But now I'm thinking if I go that far, I want to still have power if the grid goes down. With the brownouts and blackouts I just don't think SDGE (or any other utility in CA) is managing our energy well. They can't keep up with demand. If I spend the bucks to put PV on my roof, if the grid goes down I still want power. I don't want to be just some little subsidiary of SDGE and on my own dime too. If they can't produce and the sun is shining.....I still should have power.

So yes, I guess I do want at least a "zero" house (unless and until the State of CA legislates that I get paid for the excess I produce...then I'll consider producing excess). But I also want power if SDGE can't do their job. I don't want to go all survivalist. I want the simplest I can do but still get what I want.

If I wait a few years......my (2009) Prius might serve as my "backup battery"? I've read a little on the invertors and hookups and such and I think I can do that. I'm not sure I want to go the generator or other battery route. I certainly don't want a bank of old car batteries under my house. No lead acid means more cost. But if I've already spent the bucks for a rolling battery (Prius), creating my dream PV system seems more feasible.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Godiva @ Aug 6 2006, 10:45 PM) [snapback]298897[/snapback]</div>

I've found a ebay seller that builds and sells inexpensive windmills here. A couple of those with some batteries and inverters and you could be grid-free

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Godiva @ Aug 7 2006, 02:07 PM) [snapback]299183[/snapback]</div>

Check with your utility company. I was looking into this a few weeks back, and at least in my area, they do pay you for the excess you bring in for them. Not sure if it's a state-wide thing though. There are also some pretty huge incentives for installing a system - they will pay up to 50% of the costs (but it turns out more like 40% in practice as far as I could tell).