<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(viking31 @ Feb 2 2007, 12:28 PM) [snapback]384610[/snapback]</div> All they're asking for is that the U.S. sign the Kyoto Accords. If we don't, they threaten tarrifs on imports to the EU. While I support a very large carbon tax (not to foster trading in credits, but to make fossil fuels unattractive) this does not seem to be what France is calling for. Just sign the accords, as I think the rest of the civilized world has done.
This article, which seems to have received minimal attention in the news, is in my opinion important and what I consider the tip of the proverbial AGW iceberg. Taxes such as these will serve nothing but to diminish both the EU and the US economies in addition to further cooling diplomatic relations. Rick #4 2006
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(viking31 @ Feb 2 2007, 01:27 PM) [snapback]384416[/snapback]</div> I suppose if we are allowed to "muck up" the world economy with farm subsidies, we cannot complain about these "tariffs".
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Schmika @ Feb 2 2007, 12:02 PM) [snapback]384428[/snapback]</div> Yes, we are far from not guilty when it comes to tariffs, subsidies, duties, etc. But I stand by my original post. Another tax is not the answer. It serves no purpose other that to create more bureaucracy and does nothing to improve anyone’s standard of living. Rick #4 2006
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(viking31 @ Feb 2 2007, 11:27 AM) [snapback]384416[/snapback]</div> The french want to impose their will on us? Fine. Let them go ahead and do it. I wish they would - the best thing that could happen to finally close what little was left of our relationship with them. Lets see whose economy will be standing last - I can't get over the french almost as much as they can't get over themselves - lots of hot air, scandals galore (food for oil), self-centered - a culture whose best days are behind it. Lets see - unemployment at what 10%, economic growth at about what 1%, a negative growth rate except for their 15% Muslim population (the most common name of a male born in france for the past five years is Mohammad), a failure to assimilate immigrants, 35 hour work week, massive social programs, inability to fire employees or react to market forces, no military save for their aging nukes (I am not sure the french could fight their way out of a paper bag - maybe because they haven't in over a century), etc, etc. It will only speed the process of the french going into the dustbin of history as a significant society.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(viking31 @ Feb 2 2007, 12:27 PM) [snapback]384444[/snapback]</div> An EU carbon tax on American products would have its intended effect: it would put more pressure on us via our corporate masters to sign the Kyoto agreeements. Perhaps by helping us to reduce global warming, everyone's "standard of living" goes up?
You can say it all you want to - but it's like that feeling you get when a gnat is buzzing around your ear... annoying but irrelevent.
The point of a carbon tax is that presently users of fossil fuels are not paying the true cost of burning those fuels. Those costs include extraction, processing, and delivery, but they also include the effects on the climate and the environment. It's the same with any sort of pollution. A company that is allowed to dump its garbage in the city water supply, or the nation's air, is not paying the true cost of business. Taxes on pollution or carbon bring the cost of those emissions to the producer. This will be passed along as higher prices, which means the end user is paying the true cost of the product he consumes. The alternative to these taxes is that the taxpayer pays those costs in higher income taxes, and there is no financial incentive to reduce pollution (or carbon emissions). I think a carbon tax is an excellent idea, and it should be set high enough that there is a strong financial disincentive to burn fossil fuels.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(daniel @ Feb 2 2007, 02:37 PM) [snapback]384569[/snapback]</div> You raise some good arguable points although I do disagree with implementing taxes or fees based on carbon output. I'll agree to disagree on this point ;-). We could set up a website just to argue this point. The main idea I am trying to express is France seems to be firing the first shot to implementing a worldwide type of taxation (read carbon trading) scheme. Corruption and waste among sovereign governments is par for the day (always has been and always will be). In a democratic society at least the politicians know if the corruption and waste gets out of hand they soon may be out of a job. Now imagine an EU worldwide style organization in charge of collecting and distributing carbon credits. Of course they will collect hefty commissions to manage such an agency. Most importantly add in the influence of very large and powerful corporations whose best interest would be to "lobby" these officials for exemptions and such. 39 BILLION (and that is just one company of the hundreds, perhaps thousands that would be negatively affected by such a scheme) can buy you <strike>just about</strike> anything you want. I doubt the names of any of these officials and decision makers will show up on any ballot you will cast in the future. Rick #4 2006
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(dbermanmd @ Feb 2 2007, 01:51 PM) [snapback]384455[/snapback]</div> Your hatred of the French has been apparent for some time and is well documented here. I won't begin to pretend to understand it, nor do I want to. The US has been a trade bully for a very long time, and has no true friends left on the international stage. We will see soon enough which nation implodes first. I'm thinking it won't be France.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Beryl Octet @ Feb 2 2007, 01:10 PM) [snapback]384474[/snapback]</div> I would suggest letting Americans control their own destiny - perhaps by referendums. <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(hyo silver @ Feb 2 2007, 03:53 PM) [snapback]384620[/snapback]</div> each and every country can decide for themselves if they want to trade with us or not. we should not let the tail wag the dog. i still will bet you on france imploding - although the explosion will hardly be noticable anymore. in terms of international friends try china, india, korea, japan, canada, mexico, israel for starters. dont judge friendship until the going gets tough and then you can see who are your true friends
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(dbermanmd @ Feb 2 2007, 04:08 PM) [snapback]384631[/snapback]</div> Fortunately, it's only a suggestion.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(hyo silver @ Feb 2 2007, 04:23 PM) [snapback]384644[/snapback]</div> i am in favor of that too. i would immediately stop sending food overseas that is grown here - dont farm the land - less green house gases - feed only us - great for the environment too - no need to support over population of the planet. i would also halt the hundreds of billions of dollars we waste on foreign aid. also stop payments to the UN. then i would shrink the defense department down to size since we will only take care of our interests - example - next tsunami ... too bad ... they want american help ... pony up baby plus a % for profit and wear and tear. that is for starters. darfur too - let them control their own destiny and kosavo and other genocides far away. and new technology like harnessing wind and solar energy - stays here too. only people who think they control their own destiny and not the US will be allowed access to all the above. these may not be the opinions of this author and must be read with a jaundiced possibly.
