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Is the image of the United States in "free fall"?

Discussion in 'Fred's House of Pancakes' started by jared2, May 17, 2006.

  1. jared2

    jared2 New Member

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    rocohen writes in today's New York Times:

    "Karen Hughes talks fast. She talks a lot, zipping from point to point. She's a hybrid, one motor or another always running. She gives the impression of a woman racing against the tide.

    The tide in question is anti-Americanism, perhaps the fastest-growing force in the world today. Hughes's job is to stem it, sap it, stop it. That's a big job. In fact, no bigger one exists for the United States.

    Hughes, whose official title is under secretary of state for public diplomacy, and whose task Orwell would have characterized as chief propagandist, says she doesn't do spin, only facts.

    "Now, of course I try to portray the facts in the best light for our country," she adds, "Because I believe we're a wonderful country and that we are doing good things across the world."

    That's called spin. And the world isn't buying it. The image of the United States is in something close to a free fall.

    There are lots of reasons, beginning with the fact that any elephant this big bestriding the world's stage is going to irk people, especially when George W. Bush is riding it. But I suspect a basic cause is that in the 65-year period of 1941-2006, the United States has been at war in some form or another for all but 14 years.

    There was World War II and then, after a two-year break, the Cold War, which ran until 1989, and then, after an interlude of a dozen years, the war on terror. These were different sorts of wars, of course, and among them were Korea and Vietnam. But somewhere along the way, most acutely in the past few years, people got tired.

    They got tired of America's insatiable need for an enemy; suspicious of the talk of freedom and democracy and morality in which every struggle was cast; forgetful of the liberty preserved by such might; alarmed at the American fear that appeared to fire American aggression; and disdainful of the distance between declarations and deeds.

    In short they stopped buying the American narrative.

    Hughes, as she made clear at a recent meeting at the Council on Foreign Relations, wants to revive that narrative. She envisions an America offering a "positive vision of hope." Of Osama bin Laden's followers, she says: "Theirs is message of destruction and death, ours a message of life and opportunity."

    If only it were that simple.

    Hughes has lots of good ideas. She's putting a couple of Arabic-speaking diplomats in Dubai whose task will be to get the American view out fast on Al Jazeera, Al Arabiya and other regional media.

    She has assembled a rapid-response unit at the State Department, where she works. Its job is to monitor world media, notably the pan-Arab stations, and produce a one-page daily report, distributed throughout the government, setting out America's response to every major story. One voice makes a case better than many discordant ones.

    She's encouraging American ambassadors, once seemingly judged on their ability to avoid on-the-record interviews, to speak out. They'll now be evaluated in part on their public diplomacy.

    She's looking at delivering the American view to MP3 players or through text messages to cellphones. She's even got a plan to make America's airports "present a friendly and welcoming face."

    The problem with all this is a commodity Hughes insists she treats with great respect: facts.

    It's hard to seduce people at charming airports when they're getting fingerprinted. It's hard to sell "a message of life and opportunity" when kids are being killed every day in Iraq. It's hard to convey a message of openness when American embassies are being transformed into fortresses. It's hard to attract the world's best students when visas get held up.

    Above all, it's hard to win what Hughes calls "the battle of ideas" with terrorism when the idea of America, its most powerful asset, has been sullied by Abu Ghraib and by the refusal to allow enemy prisoners at Guantánamo Bay access to counsel.

    America's ideological struggle suffers further when balances essential to this country's well-being and image - between the executive and Congress, between security and liberty, between the Pentagon and the State Department - appear increasingly tilted in favor of a top-down, invasive, authoritarian-tinged form of government.

    It's not just Americans who begin to wonder when it emerges that their telephone records are being pored over by Bush's spooks. It's a world that had looked to America the free.

    That's the big picture. Until it changes - which will almost certainly take a new administration - Hughes will have her work cut out.

    She's right to enlist the help of Muslim Americans. She's right to increase the budget for exchange programs to bring imams to the United States. She's right to try to "do for terror what was done to slavery" - that is, delegitimize it.

    But first the United States must re- legitimize itself. This is essential because terrorism is based in hatred, but hatred swims in a sea of animosity. Turn the animosity around and you are winning.

    That, however, will be hard while Donald Rumsfeld remains defense secretary. Hughes is trying to get her ideas across to this side of government.

    She's leading an interagency group, including the Defense Department and intelligence agencies, that has "identified some key countries" and is asking "how we can identify the 75,100 most influential clerics and work over the next three years to make sure we invite them." It's also examining "how might the Defense Department work on its military-to-military exchanges."

    That's interesting; even more interesting is the fact that "in one of our first digital video conferences, on the screen as it happened, we were able to get two agencies of our government to learn about what the other one was doing that they hadn't known before."

    There's the Bush administration for you. Stuff happens when you've got entire government departments out there freelancing. Bad stuff even Hughes-in-overdrive will struggle to undo."

    E-mail: [email protected]
     
  2. Jim1eye

    Jim1eye Shaklee Ind Distributor

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(jared2 @ May 17 2006, 11:22 AM) [snapback]256866[/snapback]</div>
    wow.....lots to think about.

    At least someone is willing to admit that, in their opinion anyway, it hasn't just been Dubya who has gotten us in this situation. The problem has been festering for 65 years.

    BTW, jared2, are you [email protected] or just quoting them?
     
  3. jared2

    jared2 New Member

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Jim1eye @ May 17 2006, 12:18 PM) [snapback]256909[/snapback]</div>

    I wish. If I could write for the NY Times I probably would not be posting in priuschat. :)

    It is a great paper, though still just part of the mainstream corporate media. My favorite paper is the British paper, the Guardian at www.guardian.co.uk The coverage and writing is first rate.

    The internet is really an amazing thing. I probably browse through 15 or 20 news sources a day and have access to Lexis-Nexus and many other databases.
     
  4. Mirza

    Mirza New Member

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    While our country has instigated its share of problems in the Middle East for some time now (providing weapons to the Taliban back in the 80s to help them fight off the Soviets... knowing full well they were islamic fundamentalists)... world leaders are taking advantage... and being completely naive of how their countries have a responsibility in the chaoses of the modern world.

    Case in point: Putin... Russia has had its fair share of dirty power mongering... and in his state of the union speech he took advantage of anti-US sentiment. I don't think I have to explain why this is so hyopcritical... but i will if requested.

    Another example is the greedy land grabbing around ww1... basically the lines drawn to divide the Middle East and spread the lands and goods amongst the conquerors (namely Brittain)... this serves as the basis for the book "A Peace to End All Peace." It's an excellent read and I hope that some of you would consider reading it to understand how events from ~8 decades ago affect what is happening today:

    http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/080506884...5Fencoding=UTF8
     
  5. dbermanmd

    dbermanmd New Member

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    Depends from which perspective. From jealous foreign governments - it has always been.

    From an individual human being - nope. Amazing how many people would move here in the blink of an eye if we allowed them to - oops - I guess thats why they are all coming here.

    Name another country who is as sought after as ours to live in.

    And if you do not equate image with immigration - maybe image is what image really is - a non-entity, a make believe reality - what is more important is what people actually believe - and that is what they act on.

    And image is not the end all and be all for me.
     
  6. jared2

    jared2 New Member

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    There is no doubt the international image of the US has fallen precipitously since the neo cons came to power. Words like "freedom" and "democracy" are nothing but air if the US fails to respect freedom and democracy at home and abroad. The reason for this "freefall" is that people around the world have seen through the neoconservative hypocrisy.

    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(dbermanmd @ May 17 2006, 12:44 PM) [snapback]256929[/snapback]</div>
    You are right, a lot of people still want to come here. But the country's "image" has suffered greatly, and not just because "they envy our freedom". Not only have we lost in prestige, but our economy is in very serious trouble. Witness the other "free fall" - the US dollar against the euro, yen and renminbi.
     
  7. Porridge

    Porridge New Member

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    I am a UK Citizen working in the US, been here 5 years and truly believe this to be a great country - the people are so nice, well most :p However, I am frustrated at how the US is being represented by you know who. Did Mr. Blair from the UK really cancel his visit to Washington DC this month because his advisors told him no more photos with him standing next to Mr. Bush for a while? In any event, I grumble and moan like most people. When confronted the other day by someone who said "If you don't like it here, then #$$% back where you came". The only response I could think of was one from NPR; "What, and be oppressed by your foreign policies".
     
  8. eyeguy13

    eyeguy13 Member

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Porridge @ May 17 2006, 12:18 PM) [snapback]256956[/snapback]</div>
    So true. People in the world still like America. France likes America. Canada likes America. But universally do not like George W. Bush and his current administration.

    Our image will improve once the Democrats take over the House and maybe Senate this year and the Presidency in 2008. That would be a wonderful thing... ;)
     
  9. jared2

    jared2 New Member

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(eyeguy13 @ May 17 2006, 01:28 PM) [snapback]256964[/snapback]</div>
    My wife and I moved to the US from Canada in 1998. It was a different country - optimistic, confident, not paranoid. There was a surplus. There was an intelligent and rational self-made President intead of a c student legacy brat with a silver spoon in his mouth. The U.S. was respected around the world. There were lots of jobs.
    It is still a great country at the level of ordinary people, as the British poster says. Can we get that back again?
     
  10. eyeguy13

    eyeguy13 Member

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(jared2 @ May 17 2006, 12:39 PM) [snapback]256978[/snapback]</div>
    Yes we can, and we will. The polls don't lie. Americans want a change. We are tired of threat levels, of war, of bad politicians, etc...

    We can change all that. Do not be swayed by 'wedge issues', vote in 2006 and 2008 for the candidates that will bring respect back to our great country...because if things don't change in 2006, and America gets duped again by Karl Rove, I'm moving to Canada! :)
     
  11. jared2

    jared2 New Member

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(eyeguy13 @ May 17 2006, 01:48 PM) [snapback]256986[/snapback]</div>
    Me too. And I'll help you with immigration. (Don't worry, you don't have to speak French, but you will need to have a basic understanding of the rules of hockey, the metric system and a very high tolerance for stories about Quebec separation)
     
  12. dbermanmd

    dbermanmd New Member

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(jared2 @ May 17 2006, 12:51 PM) [snapback]256931[/snapback]</div>
    Lets see the US economy is in free fall? I guess that is why we are generating enough jobs for 11 MILLION illegal immigrants and millions more each year, and our unemployment rate is 4.7% (less than half of europes - hint - if you want to see economies in free fall visit france and germany and italy - or maybe iran or syria). our gdp is expanding significantly (vs europes stagnant gdp) - i kind of think europe wishes they had all our economic ills.

    And trust me, when europe gets into hot water again, American prestige and image will quickly be reconstructed as they yell for help again - that is if the survive their radial muslim immigration nightmare they created for themselves - i trust europes image and presitige is intact??

    and a weak dollar is ok by me - i am not traveling, and it makes US goods and services less expensive to buy vs. foreign competition (obviously from asia since europe offers little if any economic competition anymore).
     
  13. Mystery Squid

    Mystery Squid Junior Member

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(dbermanmd @ May 17 2006, 12:44 PM) [snapback]256929[/snapback]</div>
    This pretty much sums up my outlook on this topic...
     
  14. jared2

    jared2 New Member

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(dbermanmd @ May 17 2006, 02:21 PM) [snapback]257013[/snapback]</div>

    Our so-called "prosperity" is a debt-financed illusion. See article:

    Foreign investors are paying for the party while gaining financial leverage over the United States


    "You might ask, "If we're currently spending more money on entitlements than we actually have in our federal government, who's actually paying for it?" The answer is foreign suckers. Did I say suckers? I mean foreign investors.

    Right now, China owns an alarming percentage of U.S. treasury bills, and the governments of China, Japan and many other countries are supporting the United States' federal budget deficit by purchasing U.S. debt like a drunken sailor buying another round of shots. As of right now, they've purchased so much U.S. debt that they could collapse the U.S. economy overnight by simply selling all the debt they have accumulated. This is not at all an exaggeration.

    But you might ask, "Why don't they do that? Why doesn't China sell U.S. debt and cause the collapse of the U.S. economy?" The answer is simple: Why would China want to mess with the great scam? China is selling all sorts of plastic goods to U.S. citizens who are spending more money to buy them. This results in a huge transfer of wealth to China, and China uses a portion of that wealth to purchase U.S. debt.

    China gets both the profits of the products it sells, plus all the trade surpluses, and it gains political and economic power over the most dangerous superpower in the world, the United States of America. Obviously, if you're China and you'd like to increase the strength of your position for the present time, you continue to allow the U.S. to sink itself deeper and deeper into debt."

    And of course, we all know that US consumers are in debt up to their eyeballs since there have been no real wage gains since Bush came in. The transfer of wealth to the top 5% is not enough to sustain consumer demand; only credit cards and home equity loans do that, and that is coming to an end.
     
  15. SomervillePrius

    SomervillePrius New Member

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    I'm not so sure it's that simple. Sure America is in many ways still loved by citizens in europe and many people still want to move here. But before more people believed in Americas vision now I fell many people in europe think we've overused the words "Freedom" and "Democracy" while succumbing to paranoia and fear mongering. Bush's demeanor and leadership style also works very BADLY in europe and he has ruffled more then a few feathers (this can be fixed).

    Friend in europe tell me that they think US is back in the 50's with our paranoid hunt for terrorists among our midst. I have to agree. We used to be a country of optmimizm and "can do" attitude. Now we are afraid of everything from out-sourcning, bird-flu to terrorism and we act out of insecurity and fear rather then rationalism and optimism.

    I think this country is going down the wrong track and that it's time to change, we should regain our optimistic view and work towwards a better world. I think our war on terror really changes our country for the worse far more then it affects the terrorists. I think that the way we have executed our "war on terror" that we are playing at their level instead of taking the high route. It's time to stop and consider our options.

    I'm glad that more and more americans seems to agree that a change is due.
     
  16. dbermanmd

    dbermanmd New Member

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(eyeguy13 @ May 17 2006, 01:48 PM) [snapback]256986[/snapback]</div>
    Warning you - dont rely on the polls - polls dont vote - polls are notoriously inaccurate.
    You will enjoy Canada - and they do need some more tax payers there considering the mass migration of young educated Canadians to the US - it is important that we replace the bodies coming south who move here because they think this country is better than their current one with people who think being a Canadian citizen is better than being an American.

    You can say hi to all those draft dodgers from the Vietnam War and all the new AWOL guys who skipped out of their VOLUNTARY committment to the US Armed Forces - you won't need that big a house because there are not than many of them. And make sure you get used to giving away 70% of your income to the govt - in fact you probably think that is a normal tax rate anyhow, so it wont take long to get used to it. And get ready not to have modern medical care - forget transplantation, PET scans (unless you are a 4 legged animal - they have quicker access to expensive high tech medical care than humans there) modern chemo, etc, etc (maybe keep your Oxford Freedom Plan active if you can). Also, get used to a CONSERVATIVE government and tax cuts - you know who just got elected there, and he ain't a liberal. And if you live long enough (hopefully you live a long and healthy life) you will probably see canada fracture in two - you got to love that multiculturalism stuff up there - its beautiful how they get along so well with each other.

    You will be a little happier there too because you are sure to find lots of other hate America types.
     
  17. SomervillePrius

    SomervillePrius New Member

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    jared2: good points.
     
  18. jared2

    jared2 New Member

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(dbermanmd @ May 17 2006, 02:31 PM) [snapback]257025[/snapback]</div>
    Taxes higher in Canada. Try paying over $8,000 in property taxes where I live plus federal plus state.
    Health care? You can forget about a lot of things in Canada, like:
    Medical bills (you will never get one)
    Being denied coverage for a "pre-existing condition"
    Having no health insurance because you lose your job (everyone is covered)

    As for multiculturalism, Toronto is one of the most multicultural cities in the world and has a crime rate one tenth of the US
    Why did I leave? Because there are 191 countries in the world and I can choose to live anywhere I want if I do so legally. It is called "freedom" - you have heard of it, right?
     
  19. dbermanmd

    dbermanmd New Member

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(jared2 @ May 17 2006, 01:39 PM) [snapback]256978[/snapback]</div>
    That explains it - you are Canadian :lol:

    And since you have been here a whopping 8 years you are speaking from a large body of experience as an American B)

    So you moved here for the surplus?? Now that its gone and the deficit is back like it has been with us for the majority of the past century - you have lost hope and confidence??

    Please, make sure you do not use Canadian standards to judge what America should be. We all are witness to what is Canada and we do not want to emulate it at all. If you want Canadian type of image and prestige (???) you can always move back. I am perfectly happy with the current American operating system and image and true prestige - I choose to live here because I love it here - I choose not to move to Canada because they are who they are, they operate the way they do (although they are becoming more conservative - a little late but better than never) and because I would not want to tell them what they should become.

    Jobs - tons of jobs here my friend - growing at about 200,000 new jobs per month average for years - how many new jobs is Canada generating without all the financial burdens of supporting a military ;) It must be nice living off the protection and IMAGE and PRESTIGE of a Super Power Nation to your south. Also the same nation that is the source for the majority of your employment.

    And I am glad you did not vote for D student Kerry - imagine that he had a LOWER GPA than Bush - only a fool would have voted for that sugar mommy seaking self made (bring your home video camero to ) war hero.
     
  20. jared2

    jared2 New Member

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    "without all the financial burdens of supporting a military"

    And who, exactly is this military "protecting us" from? Not the soviet union. Not China. Not even from "terrorists". Is it not, in fact, simply a mechanism to transfer billions of dollars from ordinary working taxpayers into the hands of rich investors. Who needs it? Americans would be far better off without it.