Individual wrongs v. common rights

Insecurities
power over people or lack there of
misinformation and propaganda
expectations
lack of options

All these things play into the problem.


A major paradime shift is needed. There are a few out there that see the problems but lets face it, its a lot easier to just pretend everything is fine.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Bill Merchant @ Jul 31 2007, 07:25 PM) [snapback]488446[/snapback]</div>

Oh now... you know as well as I do that there are PLENTY of PriusChatters who think not only FOR themselves, but primarly OF themselves. I'm thinking of the many who bought the Prius primarly to save money on gas. Or to save time on their HOV lane commute.

I think we agree that it is good they bought Prii, but I don't kid myself into thinking that the vast majority of Prius drivers bought them for the greater good.

 

Don't forget keeping up with the Joneses!

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Per @ Jul 31 2007, 07:39 PM) [snapback]488454[/snapback]</div>

That was mentioned in the article ** though you'd never know it since the opening post has been edited, and the link removed **), and is certainly a big part of it. Actually it is more like *beating* the Jonese up the onramp.

 

The Prius of SUVs has not been built yet. The Hybrid SUVs are still carrying around too much weight from their hunchback days. The heavy discounts on the old tech SUVs has a lot to do with sales.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(darelldd @ Jul 31 2007, 11:22 PM) [snapback]488468[/snapback]</div>

No, that's what I do on most onramps unless the current mpg drops, meaning I'm using too much energy in a really tight turn. Most SUVs are simply in my way, as they always have been. Besides, less fuel is spent on acceleration if you come out at 50 rather than 25.

What I tend to do in forums when people use the bigger is safer argument is to point out that if a fully loaded semi hits that Suburban, the ratio of weight between the two vehicles is as if they had hit a motorcycle with the Suburban. It's true enough, after all, what's six thousand pounds in the face of eighty thousand pounds?

Beyond that, that's freedom of choice. One can say certain things, after all, that's freedom of speech. But saying some things exposes one's shortcomings as surely as if you'd dropped your pants instead.

I've never understood calling them sport utility vehicles. There's no sport to most of them. It's almost as inscrutable a thing to call a vehicle as "personal luxury car". Those, if my parents '76 Monte Carlo was any indication, were at least fun to drive, in a way.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(MaxLegroom @ Aug 1 2007, 05:36 AM) [snapback]488541[/snapback]</div>

I bought mine for 2 reasons:
First I am concerned about what alll the oil money in the Middle East is used for.
If we really support the troops, we would not help fund terrorism.
I am also concerned with going green.
EM
PS I like the money saved on gas and consider it my payback.

 

Down here in Florida, especially near Ocala (horse country) I see quite a few SUV's used to pull horse trailers. Then near Lake County (thousands of lakes) I see people buying and using the SUV's to pull their boat trailers and unload the boats on the boat ramps. It takes a lot of torque/horsepower to get a wet boat and trailer OUT of the water on a slippery boat ramp. Sure, many others use pick-up trucks for the same towing purpose, but I guess SUV's can be a "double duty" vehicle if you plan to occasionally have another couple with you or have a large family and don't have a P.U. with a crew cab?

Don't get me wrong....... this past May we traded-in our gas sucking (premium fuel only) '03 Acura MDX for the new '07 Prius. WE had no use for towing (even though we had the optional trailer towing package and never used it at all) and were sick-and-tired of getting UNDER 20 M.P.G. with $3.45+ PREMIUM fuel.

What really makes me mad is to see the Hummers, Suburbans, Explorers and Caddy Escalades cruising around with only ONE person in them, sucking up fuel and lucky to get even 10 MPG around town......

 

Listen folks. Gas is cheap even at $4.00/gallon which is why you see all of these huge SUV's driving around. Most people never take them off road or use them for towing. Instead, the have become the new millennium version of the 70's station wagons.

People might bitch and moan every time gas prices go up, but the prices really haven't gotten to the point where they are impacting buying decisions. Sure, all of us as Prius owners realize the benefits and savings of hybrid technology. However, not everyone thinks like we do, and we shouldn't expect them to.

It comes down to freedom of choice and we should all respect the choices others make.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Swanny1172 @ Aug 1 2007, 08:09 AM) [snapback]488573[/snapback]</div>

Oh, OK...

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(rfred @ Aug 1 2007, 09:35 AM) [snapback]488578[/snapback]</div>

Sorry if you don't like it, but you can always go live in a socialist society where the right to choose is totally taken out of the hands of the individual.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Swanny1172 @ Aug 1 2007, 09:03 AM) [snapback]488590[/snapback]</div>

I think you're confusing the right of the individual to make a choice vs. whether or not I should respect that choice. Pretty nice rejoinder, though.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(rfred @ Aug 1 2007, 10:28 AM) [snapback]488598[/snapback]</div>

I don't have to respect what someone says, so long as I respect their right to say it. That is what freedom is all about.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Swanny1172 @ Aug 1 2007, 09:51 AM) [snapback]488614[/snapback]</div>

I couldn't agree more.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Swanny1172 @ Aug 1 2007, 06:09 AM) [snapback]488573[/snapback]</div>

I don't mean to come down on you hard, because of course I agree somewhat with what you say. But...

What if somebody else's choice of freedoms destroys mine?

I choose the freedom of energy independence, safer vehicle travel, less war, clean air and water. Why are the freedoms of people who choose to drive uneccessarily large vehicles more important than mine?

I have trouble respecting somebody's freedom that craps all over mine. Should we grant people the freedom of choice to break laws too, or is there a line somewhere?

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(FloridaWen @ Aug 1 2007, 04:21 AM) [snapback]488565[/snapback]</div>

That's right! I used my small PU for years to tow and launch/recover my heavy sail boat. My truck was matched for the job perfectly, and never once felt the need for a more powerful SUV. I see station wagons doing the same duty.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(darelldd @ Aug 1 2007, 11:42 AM) [snapback]488643[/snapback]</div>

Your personal freedom ends at the tip of my nose, and vice versa.

Choosing to drive an SUV is a personal choice. Are you trying to tell us that you should somehow have a say in they way another person chooses to spend their money? Unless you are paying their bills, then the answer is no.

If we, as a society, collectively choose to increase fuel economy standards like they have in the rest of the world, then this would all be a moot point. People in Europe aren't driving around in SUV's like we are. However, we have not done anything to cause consumers to switch, largely because our government seems beholden to the oil and auto industries.

Also, are the new full size SUV hybrids like the 2008 Chevy Tahoe going to change your mind? It is supposed to get somewhere in the neighborhood of 22MPG in the city and 26MPG on the highway.

 

I look forward to 2017 when Toyota "SUVs" and PUs are full PZEV or ZEV hybrids.

Driving a SUV, especially alone, is an individual choice, but in many cases demonstrates lack of critical thinking and lack of social responsibility. I am amazed at the number of oversized vehicles with just a driver. Pull into a gas station, the Prius takes 10 gal, the oversized SUV takes much longer to fill up with 20 to 40 gallons. This adversely impacts air quality, the greater mass decreases tire life (increasing particulate matter in the air), accelerates the race toward and over Peak Oil and impacts us all.

A "personal" choice, no a very poor choice that demonstrates short-term thinking with little regard for the long-term (personal or holistic).