1. Attachments are working again! Check out this thread for more details and to report any other bugs.

Import More Cars, Not More Fuel?

Discussion in 'Prius, Hybrid, EV and Alt-Fuel News' started by Kiloran, Dec 1, 2005.

  1. Kiloran

    Kiloran New Member

    Joined:
    Aug 31, 2005
    1,225
    3
    0
  2. jayman

    jayman Senior Member

    Joined:
    Oct 21, 2004
    13,439
    641
    0
    Location:
    Winnipeg Manitoba
    Vehicle:
    2004 Prius
    I would like to see those cars here, but can you imagine how GM would cry then?

    It would also be nice for GM to "blame" companies other than Toyota for having the nerve to make fuel efficient cars.

    GM doesn't produce fuel efficient cars because they decided a LONG time ago not to. It isn't a "man's" car/truck unless it burns rubber on command and gets under 20 MPG.

    Before the GM apologists jump in, let me remind you that their European subsidiary Opel is quite capable of producing fuel efficient cars.

    http://www.opel.de
     
  3. malorn

    malorn Senior Member

    Joined:
    Oct 28, 2005
    4,281
    59
    0
    Location:
    "Somewhere in Flyover Country"
    Vehicle:
    Other Non-Hybrid
    So now Jayman, you are claiming that GM is behind a conspiracy to only sell gas hog SUV's and pickups? Is it just GM or does the conspiracy include Ford, DCX, Toyota, Nissan, Honda etc? I thought Toyota's push towards large trucks and suv's while not endorsed by you has been defended as a reaction to the Amercian market. Aren't you talking out both sides of your mouth on this?
     
  4. tideland_raj

    tideland_raj New Member

    Joined:
    Jul 2, 2005
    108
    0
    0
    Location:
    Sunnyvale, CA
    I can totally see GM having that attitude, and it will mark their path to irrelevancy.

    Sad fact is, American car manufacturers (specifically GM) have long been sucking the government teat for subsidies and protection, and ignoring their customers and progress in general. Some (Ford) are starting to see the writing on the wall, but I still think it's going to take a major shake-up to get them to really compete.

    My only hope is that the CxO's at these failing companies don't blame everything on "the unions" while still pulling down multi-million dollar salaries. Also to blame is the repeated failure to capitalize on their brilliant concept cars, which seem to always be scrapped and never see the day of light.

    Ultimately, the problem is that fuel is too cheap here (being subsidized by our military efforts in the middle east)... and those external costs are being realized as "war costs". We're still paying a lot for our fuel (given the $250+Billion war-subsidy), and unless/until the consumer realizes their SUV is costing them more than a new car payment in gas, they're not going to switch.
     
  5. jayman

    jayman Senior Member

    Joined:
    Oct 21, 2004
    13,439
    641
    0
    Location:
    Winnipeg Manitoba
    Vehicle:
    2004 Prius
    Yes, I am claiming GM has purposely destroyed their North American market share, sales, and even purposely driven their debt rating to Junk Bond status.

    Nobody will make a boo-boo as serious as that by ACCIDENT.

    GM has proven they simply cannot conceive of a desirable car that people will want to buy. Oddly enough, they have subsidiaries - I mentioned Opel AG but you apparently didn't look at it - where they appear to be capable of understanding the market and producing cars the average person wants.

    So whether you are a disenfranchised 17 year old or a "Chevy Dealer" as you claim to be, I'm getting rather bored with your Evil Toyota Conspiracy Theory. GM caused their own problems, I'm just a bit surprised the UAW hasn't taken the corporate management and strung them up.
     
  6. jayman

    jayman Senior Member

    Joined:
    Oct 21, 2004
    13,439
    641
    0
    Location:
    Winnipeg Manitoba
    Vehicle:
    2004 Prius
    American workers and American jobs are a good rallying cry, but no longer useful when the Board and CEO fear losing their fat cut. Laborers and line position workers have almost zero influence on a large corporation, certainly zero influence on corporate strategic issues.

    For my driving, the EV-1 makes a lot more sense. Oh, wait a moment, GM crushed all of them. I guess I see their point, can't confuse the "traditional" pickup and SUV driver with a contradictory item like a wimpy homo Tree Hugger electric car.

    If the United States didn't import one drop of foreign-source oil, then perhaps it really wouldn't matter what the average person drove. Oh sure, there are issues like pollution but the average person doesn't care about asthma either.

    If you were to eliminate the approximately 52% oil imports, what would be the TRUE cost of fuel then? It would make $3/gal look cheap, wouldn't it?

    It's not just the war in Iraq that is so costly. Ever since the first OPEC crisis, a sustained military presence in the Gulf has been required to "ensure" the flow of oil. It also helps that the government pointedly ignores what countries like Saudi Arabia do behind the scenes, as long as the oil keeps flowing.

    Notice what happened to Hugo Chavez once he couldn't keep the oil flowing as demanded. Suddenly you have a major "religious" icon calling for his demise. Cute.

    I suppose if the minority Liberal government - having lost a Non Confidence vote this week - is replaced by a radical coalition of Bloc Quebecois and NDP, that would certainly threaten energy supply to the United States. We could then expect American B-1B's carpet bombing Edmonton.