I'm Prius-damaged

I'd buy a Camry Hybrid in a heartbeat! I think the new styling is pretty good, inside and outside. They won't get Prius mileage, but I'll bet you can learn to drive them efficiently too. And even the Ford Escape Hybrid (gasp!) wouldn't be a bad choice. For a traditional ICE I'd probably go with a Honda Fit or Honda Civic, since Hondas seem to have better handling than other brands IMO. And of course there's nothing wrong with getting another Prius.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(chogan @ Oct 29 2006, 06:55 AM) [snapback]340242[/snapback]</div>

I like your term, "Prius-damaged". What's particularly frustrating is that car manufacturers already offered high gas mileage cars 15-20 years ago, then stopped. The Honda CRX was rated in the 50mpg range for almost all of it's life; the 1986 Honda Civic Coupe HF was rated 52/57; 1989 Geo Metro rated at 53/58; The 1988 Chevy Sprint Metro was rated at an astounding 54/58! And these were all internal combustion engines. Imagine one of these with an installed hybrid system. It makes you wonder why the current crop of hybrids don't get much better mileage than they do.

Unfortunately, the manufacturers discovered that they could make a huge profit margin with SUVs and pickup trucks, so they all but ignored high mpg cars in the '90s. I consider the Honda Insight and Toyota Prius to be just picking up where they left off, or even trying to make up some ground on those previous efforts. Doesn't it seem odd that Honda felt they had to take all these drastic measures making the Insight (aluminum body, aerodynamics, etc) to manufacture a car that only gets a tiny bit better mileage than a car they made 20 years ago?

Vince

 

I am Prius Crazy.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(chogan @ Oct 29 2006, 09:55 AM) [snapback]340242[/snapback]</div>

It does change the way you think about cars. Sitting at a traffic light on a cold morning and noticing the fumes come out of all the other cars. Not sure it's something I would have thought about before.

 

If you don't want to buy another Prius (though I don't understand why) I'd suggest you stick with Toyota or Honda. That means a Civic or Corolla if you want an economy car, or an Accord or Camry if you want a bigger car. The Camry hybrid would be a good choice if you need a bigger car than a Corolla. But, again, I'd say you already have the answer in your heart: you need another Prius.

 

>> Can't find another car I want to buy

Well, that's because there are no EVs on the market, of course. In your spare time, head on down to your local auto row and let 'em know you've got some cash just sitting around waiting for that time when they offer something you'd like to buy.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(darelldd @ Oct 29 2006, 08:14 AM) [snapback]340282[/snapback]</div>

go to the dealer and say you have cash waiting for a EV! ha if it ain't on their lot they really don't care about you and probably never will. Sad fact of life. The hybrid market is just a dot on the overall picture and the EV is just an infitesimal spot on that dot. Like the fuel cell market in NA it just isn't going to happen. In a small country without any oil production it might be possible but in NA just a darelldd dream.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(VinceDee @ Oct 29 2006, 10:45 AM) [snapback]340250[/snapback]</div>

I drove a Honda CRX for years. It was a great little car; peppy, quick, and great fuel mileage, but little is the key word. It was a toy compared to the Prius. I suspect that is the main reason the current crop of hybrids don't get better mileage. Can you imagine a CRX with the Prius HSD! With the Honda handling and the increased power and torque, wow! I want one.

Tom

 

If you absolutely don't want another Prius - go with the Camry hybrid. Same great design you know and love.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(chogan @ Oct 29 2006, 05:29 PM) [snapback]340441[/snapback]</div>

Here's the vehicle you want. True, it's $68K, but it's got cargo space and economy:
http://www.acpropulsion.com/ebox/pricing.htm

For $55 they take your Toyota Scion and turn it into a full EV.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(chogan @ Oct 29 2006, 07:10 PM) [snapback]340457[/snapback]</div>

Don't fool yourself with the similarity though. The Prius is FAR cleaner than any of these cars ever was, and the Prius is roomier and has far more power. Yes, I agree it is good to note what can be done with straight ICE. But make no mistake... you are justified in your Prius smugness still.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Frank Hudon @ Oct 29 2006, 09:33 AM) [snapback]340291[/snapback]</div>

It isn't like we have the option of continuing with gasoline ICE indefinitely. We WILL have EVs in some form or another. Yes, even here in NA. My "dream" is that we'll head down the EV path before our infatuation with the status quo becomes too expensive and painful.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(chogan @ Oct 29 2006, 06:10 PM) [snapback]340457[/snapback]</div>

Getting a 3000LB car around for the same fuel economy as an 1800lb car is a HUGE accomplishment. If you put a 1200 pound trailer on that 1986 Honda, if the Honda could even pull it, you'd clamp down its performance and fuel economy something fierce. Or compare the Prius to a 3000 lb car from 1986 and see what the comparable mileage is like. And that doesn't count the emissions hardware missing from the Honda but present on the Prius.

However, it is also true that if you are a one-passenger car driver, we've simply used 20 years of technology to allow you to haul around yourself plus 3000 pounds of automobile for the same fuel economy as you used to be able to haul yourself and 1800 pounds. On that score, measured at the gas pump, the 86 Honda and the 2006 Prius are identical as commuter vehicles. But boy, is the Prius safer and more comfortable.

One thing is true - expensive gas in the 1970s led to efficiency in the 80s, cheap gas in the 80s led to more horsepower and size in the 90s. Since 2000 - 2004 were all about the peak of this power craze (similar to the late 1960s early 1970s), I wonder if the later half of this decade will start a return to economy?

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(darelldd @ Oct 29 2006, 06:31 PM) [snapback]340467[/snapback]</div>

Maybe, but realize that the ICE as we know it can burn gasoline, natural gas, hydrogen gas, ethanol, methanol, and other short-chain hydrocarbons (and non-hydrocarbons in the case of pure H2) today, with almost no modification at all. All of those fuels can be generated synthetically from renewable resources. Have you read about the guy who produces crude oil from turkey guts that the Tyson plant produces? He claims he can make crude oil from any carbon-based biomass at an efficiency of almost 80%.

And if you stretch ICE to include Diesel engines, then we can run them on all sorts of biofuels.

I think the energy density of chemical fuel alone will probably make the ICE longevity much longer than we might otherwise expect. Even at 70% power loss (30% efficiency), gasoline has 1000% more energy than Lithium Ion packs. Even if there is just a single cylinder "limp home" engine present for those drained batteries, I think we'll not get many pure EVs very soon.

What we really need to do is drop our consumption to the level where we can sustain it domestically, much as Brazil has done with its massive ethanol production. If they can be energy independent, so can we.

 

Let me get this straight. You want a car with more room than the Prius, but uses the same or less fuel? Dream on! Even the Camry Hybrid has -less- room than the Prius. It looses cargo space to the battery. It was not designed from the ground up as a hybrid, like the Prius was. The major thing that attracted me to the Prius was the efficient use of space inside it. I don't think you're going to find a vehicle made right now that is as efficient. If it's bigger on the outside, it's probably going to be heavier. If it's heavier, it's going to use more fuel.

BTW, your "domestic made" requirement will rule out the Ford Escape. While the engine and hybrid components are Ford mostly, the body is Mazda.

 

I don't get why you don't just buy a second Prius. Just buy a different color.