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I think I'm going to sell...

Discussion in 'Generation 1 Prius Discussion' started by astrolink, Jul 28, 2013.

  1. astrolink

    astrolink Junior Member

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    I think I've had enough.....2002 Prius. 165K miles Runs very rough at times at idle upon startup, codes p0171 and misfire codes. Eventually it runs perfectly, but mileage is at least 10 less then it should be.

    With no change to symptoms, I've changed:

    1) Spark Plugs
    2) Coils
    3) Upstream O2 sensor
    4) Temp Sensor
    5) Mass Air Flow Sensor (twice; once with a cheap Chinese one and again with Denso
    6) Throttle body and gasket
    7) Intake gasket
    8) PCV changed
    9) Inspected vacuum control on exhaust; working fine.
    10) cleaned intake of oil and made sure it's not overfilled
    11) 2 bottles of fuel injector cleaner
    12) Checked for vacuum leaks
    13) Cleaned around gas cap to make sure there is a good seal.

    Just don't know what to even look at from here
     
  2. ursle

    ursle Gas miser

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    If it's throwing codes it's not inspect-able, so it's going to be sold as metal or salvage....
    My 2ng gen is very particular about exactly what spark plug it has, 10mpg particular, just sayin..
     
  3. JMD

    JMD 2012 Prius 4 Solar Roof

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  4. astrolink

    astrolink Junior Member

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    I only paid $1000 for it....rock solid hybrid battery. If I put it in neutral for 30 seconds upon startup it idles perfectly. In neutral there is no hybrid charging going on so there is absolutely no load.

    After 30 secs and in gear, it sometimes runs perfectly with no check engine light. It's always the same codes....it's acts like an intermittent vacuum leak, but I can't find it. I used the best iridium plugs I could find. I have $1700 into it now, but that does include all the above plus new tires. I suppose I could drive it and get 35mpg, but I'm a bit spoiled by my 2 seater Insight which is never below 55mpg.

    I wish one of those emission codes would set but all I get is misfire codes and P0171 as usual.
     
  5. JMD

    JMD 2012 Prius 4 Solar Roof

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    I think it is something around the gas tank. Wait for one of the Master a mechanics to respond to the thread. Patrick Wong or Avi are very good.
     
  6. northwichita

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  7. Patrick Wong

    Patrick Wong DIY Enthusiast

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    This is the full list of suspect areas with DTC P0171 which means you have a lean air/fuel mixture:

    Air induction system
    Injector blockage
    Mass air flow meter
    Engine coolant temperature sensor
    Fuel pressure
    Gas leakage in exhaust system
    Open or short in oxygen sensor (bank 1, sensor 1) circuit
    Oxygen sensor (bank 1, sensor 1)
    Oxygen sensor heater (bank 1, sensor 1)
    Circuit opening relay
    PCV valve and hose
    PCV hose connection
    ECM

    You've addressed many of these areas already. Since the problem is intermittent I would look for a loose wiring harness connector. You may need to seek professional assistance to further narrow down the problem.
     
  8. Drdiesel

    Drdiesel Active Member

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    P0171 is a lean condition. Find a shop with a smoke machine and have them smoke test the intake.
    It will test the breather system, the PCV system, the intake and all the related vacuum hoses.
    Always make sure the brake booster isn't leaking also. Most will leak and cause a stiff pedal.

    Here's some diagnostic data for things to look at.
     

    Attached Files:

  9. trc202

    trc202 Junior Member

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    May I ask where you are located?
     
  10. Patrick Wong

    Patrick Wong DIY Enthusiast

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    Prius does not have a brake booster activated by engine vacuum. This is because the engine frequently is turned off during the course of normal operation and obviously there would be no vacuum available during those periods.

    Instead Prius has a brake actuator that contains an electrically operated pump to develop pressure in the hydraulic system. This pump can usually be heard running for a brief period after the driver's door is opened, prior to the car being made READY. It also will be heard running from time to time while the car is READY.
     
  11. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web BMW i3 and Model 3

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    Sorry to hear about your problems. Can you tell us where you are located? We know of many credible, independent Prius mechanics who might be able to help diagnose what is going on.

    What type of scanner are you using? The standard, over-the-counter scanners are not 'Prius-aware' and do not read out Prius specific error codes. There may be something else going on that a 'Prius-aware' scanner, something an independent Prius mechanic would have, could give more insights.

    * * * astrolink * * *
    . . . Runs very rough at times at idle upon startup, codes p0171 and misfire codes. . . . mileage is at least 10 less then it should be. - Sounds like it may be running in "open loop." What are the long term and short term fuel trim doing?

    With no change to symptoms, I've changed:

    1) Spark Plugs - A Prius-aware scanner, if I remember correctly, would identify cylinder.
    2) Coils - ""
    3) Upstream O2 sensor - What is the voltage swing? How soon does it start?
    4) Temp Sensor - What is the temperature profile over time?
    5) Mass Air Flow Sensor (twice; once with a cheap Chinese one and again with Denso) - What sort of gm/sec are you seeing? Does it change as the coolant temperature increases?
    6) Throttle body and gasket - Throttle body is usually pretty expensive, used part?
    7) Intake gasket - The intake manifold was removed?
    8) PCV changed - Reasonable, what did the old one look like?
    9) Inspected vacuum control on exhaust; working fine. - Good
    10) cleaned intake of oil and made sure it's not overfilled - Good
    11) 2 bottles of fuel injector cleaner - Should have done the job but if you took the manifold, were the injectors removed? One of our members had a problem with the injector gasket.
    12) Checked for vacuum leaks - Method? Some are better than others.
    13) Cleaned around gas cap to make sure there is a good seal. - Good
    * * *

    Bob Wilson
     
  12. astrolink

    astrolink Junior Member

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    I replaced the fuel injectors today...they were only $101 for a rebuilt set, so I figured it was worth a try. I had already run 2 bottles of cleaner through the gas and replaced the gaskets on the old ones.

    Took my usual 7 mile "test run" to see if there was any improvement. Last test was 36.3mpg (the only time I had any improvement was with the 02 sensor of 4 mpg).

    No check engine light....56.4mpg...It's fixed!
     
  13. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web BMW i3 and Model 3

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    I can not emphasize enough how important it is to have a 'benchmark.' Ideally, do it when you first buy a car and then save it somewhere. If there is any question in the future, re-run the 'benchmark' and you'll know.

    WELL DONE!
    Bob Wilson
     
  14. Patrick Wong

    Patrick Wong DIY Enthusiast

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    Thanks for the update - it appears that the second item from my list in post #7 above was your car's problem.

    Please comment on how difficult or easy it was to replace the injectors.
     
  15. astrolink

    astrolink Junior Member

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    I've had it apart so many times, it took about 10 minutes. Once you remove the air filter assemble, you only have to remove the 2 bolts that hold the fuel rail. Injector #4 is a bit of tight squeeze, but I was able to lift the rail just high enough to remove the old one and replace it.

    You have to clean the area around the injectors as there is lots of fine dirt down there, but I had already done this when I replaced the injector seals a couple weeks earlier.
     
  16. ChapmanF

    ChapmanF Senior Member

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    Did you just leave the third bolt in place then and find the fuel pipe flexible enough to lift and get the injectors out? Out of all three, that's the one that's a PITA to reach (down on the end of the head roughly under the PCV valve) but I was chicken to try leaving it tight and bending the rail around. That would have saved me some time.

    Hmm, I wonder if that's why they built that goofy hook of the valve cover that lies over the fuel pipe. Maybe they figured out how far you could safely bend the tube without fussing with the bolt in the back, and then added the hook to prevent going too far. Pretty clever if that's the explanation. Even more clever if the guys who figured that out could have mentioned it to the guys writing the manual.... :rolleyes:

    -Chap
     
  17. astrolink

    astrolink Junior Member

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    I didn't know there was a third bolt! Just gently lifted it far enough to get the injector out and put the new one in.
     
  18. ChapmanF

    ChapmanF Senior Member

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    Also, do you still have the old injectors, or did they go back as cores? I'd be curious to get a test report on them (from somebody like Cruzin Performance) just to get an idea what the numbers are when lean-running symptoms and codes appear.

    -Chap
     
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  19. astrolink

    astrolink Junior Member

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    I have the old ones. I was going to throw them away. If somebody wants them to test, I would gladly send them.
     
  20. usnavystgc

    usnavystgc Die Hard DIYer and Ebike enthusiast.

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    Well, I'm glad this problem is finally fixed!!!!! :)