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I am not surprised ... may see Florida get much smaller

Discussion in 'Environmental Discussion' started by bwilson4web, Apr 27, 2023.

  1. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web BMW i3 and Model 3

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    This might happen before I die. Earlier projections were much later than my expected lifetime.

    Bob Wilson
     
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  2. hill

    hill High Fiber Member

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    According to the video it was ~3 million years ago that CO2 levels were as high as they are heading now. Where would Antarctica be - one wonders, 3 million years ago - in its contenental drift travels (presently 1"/yr) - & how that plays into the formula .... presuming that drift has been a constant rather than speeding up or slowing down.
    .
     
  3. ETC(SS)

    ETC(SS) The OTHER One Percenter.....

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    I do not trade baseball cards or "scientific studies" but if we presume that the NOAA data is within an order of magnitude of "truth" then the sea levels will rise by 1-2 feet.
    How much of Florida is within a foot or two of MSL?
    Note to non natives:
    FL tides are mostly diurnal and typically range 1-3' in the parts that I have visited.

    The goofiest prediction that I heard was from Zillow who predicted that one in eight houses will be "underwater" in the sunshine state by 2100.
    One presumes that they don't mean the kind of underwater that will occur from government foolishly diddling with government backed mortgage insurance premiums.
    The idea that insurance companies, and mortgage lenders, AND home owners will hang around coastal areas waiting for the next 'forced urban renewal event' to wipe out 12-13% of the inventory during the next 100 years is to demonstrate very little real-world knowledge in how autumnal storms have influenced coastal development in older states up North.

    See also:
    Click bait.

    Now.....NEW ORLEANS is a different matter! ;)
     
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  4. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    buy inland
     
  5. ETC(SS)

    ETC(SS) The OTHER One Percenter.....

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    When Disney relocates there will be a lot of available space near Orlando.
     
  6. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    they'll never go, but desantis will
     
  7. ETC(SS)

    ETC(SS) The OTHER One Percenter.....

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    He’s resigning soon…..
     
  8. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    my brother lives about 2 miles inland in naples. how many years does he have left?
     
  9. CR94

    CR94 Senior Member

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    To Washington?
     
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  10. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web BMW i3 and Model 3

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    upload_2023-4-28_0-16-44.png

    Bob Wilson
     
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  11. ETC(SS)

    ETC(SS) The OTHER One Percenter.....

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    That depends more on his genetics, BMI and daily exercise than anything else.
    I'm not an 'ageist' but I presume that your brother is more than one year old, and thus his choice of living accommodations will be little influenced by the anthropogenic component of 'climate change.'

    Your brother has little rudder input over the rest of the 'stuff' and he should plan accordingly.
     
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  12. Zythryn

    Zythryn Senior Member

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    Until what?
    If you are asking how long until he is impacted by climate change, that would be immediately. Ask him how much his home insurance has increased the last couple of years.

    If limiting the question to sea level rise, this site lays it all out: Surging Seas: Risk Finder

    Naples has an elevation of about 3 feet. His house may be a bit higher. Sea level will take quite a few years to rise 3 feet, 25-30 as a WAG.
    Part of the problem is, it could happen fairly quickly. If we get a collapse of the wrong glacier in Antarctica (the western ice sheet) sea level rise would be about 10-13 feet. Models don’t show this happening this year or next, but by the end of the century.
    Storm surge/hurricanes become more likely each decade though.

    So, increase in costs: already affected
    Storm surge/hurricane : could be any year, more and more likely as time goes by
    Sea level rise of 3 feet: currently expected probably after his lifetime, but not impossible.
     
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  13. Trollbait

    Trollbait It's a D&D thing

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    Also have to consider sites beyond. The house might be high enough to not be concerned, but if the roads and utilities traverse lower ground, they might need to invest in a boat and off grid equipment to continue living there.
     
    #13 Trollbait, Apr 28, 2023
    Last edited: Apr 28, 2023
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  14. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web BMW i3 and Model 3

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    When, not IF:
    upload_2023-4-28_9-28-50.png

    Bob Wilson
     
  15. ETC(SS)

    ETC(SS) The OTHER One Percenter.....

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    ^ Concur.
    Follow the science.....

    The premiums are probably more affected by increases in home prices, building materials, labor, and other costs like the bond market wrecking the economy and poor choices in government leadership over the last 40 years.
    Whether you have a deranged moronic carnival barker or an aged addled, hypocritical leader whose only 2 resume bullets are that he is marginally better than his predecessor AND the first two people in the line of succession then you are probably going to encounter headwinds in the economy.

    I'm about 30 miles inland and 33' above MSL and my premiums have gone up by about 10% over 10 years, and 3-4 named storms.
    My humble home's value as assessed by my insurance company (USAA) and my local government has gone up a LOT more than that.
    I used to get into nasty arguments with them because used to think that they were trying to sell me much more insurance than I needed.

    Then?
    My daughter's house caught fire, and YES.
    It was "climate change."
    There was no thunder and lightning, and then suddenly there was.

    To paraphrase the President, this taught me TWO things:
    1. Having a house damaged by a fire is orders of magnitude WORSE than a hull-loss incident.
    2. Insurance used to be a product used to indemnify a person against an unsustainable loss until we were sold into the false notion that they will "make you whole."
    3. Spoiler Alert: They will not. Insurance is a product used to indemnify investors against an inflationary cycle or downturn in other parts of the market. Nothing wrong with that. I have a 401(k) too.... ;)

    As (poorly) illustrated in the scare-post above(**) there is a nearly 100-percent chance that my home WILL BE destroyed OR significantly damaged by climate change. We humans are just betting that we will beat the odds of it happening during the tiny scratch of time that we're infesting this rock.

    Actuarials do not care about people's feelings.
    They use math and stuff.....;)

    (**) One presumes that the the largest group of freshwater lakes on Earth by total area and are second-largest by total volume will be shaped a little differently and the watersheds in the middle part of the remaining landmass will have a lot more light blue 'scare-areas' in them.
    In fact?
    There is fossil evidence that there will be a lot more water and a lot less land WHEN all the ice goes away.
    ANY devotee of good Tennessee whiskey can tell you that the next time will not be the first time, nor the last.
     
    #15 ETC(SS), Apr 28, 2023
    Last edited: Apr 28, 2023
  16. Trollbait

    Trollbait It's a D&D thing

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    I might have a beach house in the future.
     
  17. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    No idea, but Disney will be there long after he’s dead
     
  18. jdenenberg

    jdenenberg EE Professor

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    My home in CT is 530 feet above sea level, so I'm OK for now.

    DoctorD
     
  19. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    He’s in a golf community townhouse. If his insurance has increased much, I’m surprised he hasn’t told me.
    I’ll ask him when I talk to him, but he usually shrugs off any negative Florida hype as fud
     
  20. tochatihu

    tochatihu Senior Member

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    Risk Finder (above) looks like an excellent tool at local scales. Full-state scale is at

    https://johnenglander.net/wp/wp-content/uploads/2020/06/FL-5-meter-elevation-map-Keren-Bolter-for-John-Englander.png

    Complete melting of grounded ice is highly likely in future, but unlikely within 10 thousand years.

    One can see where Antarctica was 10 million years ago from Scotese's paleomaps. Three million would be distinguishable from current location, but it would be hard to see. And hard to imagine large effects therefrom.

    Infrastructure closer to sea level than one's residence is an excellent point mentioned above. I don't know how much water supply to coastal Florida is from groundwater, but saline intrusion into those aquifers is extremely important globally. And already happening.

    Annual 'King tides' and storm surges will matter a lot more than daily tidal amplitude almost every-coastal-where.
     
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