Hybrids on Hold: GM axes hybrid pickups until two-mode system debuts in 2008

The next generation GM truck hybrid will get over 20 mpg combined, should be 21. The Toyota Tundra is 16 combined (17 old EPA).

So I give a tip of the cap to GM.

I think a full size pick up with good power and over 20 mpg is impressive. And if GM leads in hybrid trucks that is a big deal. Until truck lovers come around to hybrids progress will be limited.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(etyler88 @ Apr 30 2007, 09:27 AM) [snapback]432488[/snapback]</div>

Under the NEW EPA calc's it'll only be 18mpg. Whoop de doo.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(hill @ Apr 30 2007, 10:28 AM) [snapback]432515[/snapback]</div>

Please explain. Above does not make sense. Assuming the article reference that the new hybrid will improve mpg by 25% the Sierra will be above 20 mpg. Current V8 Sierra is 16 mpg and hybrid Sierra is 17 (new EPA). So add 4 mpg and voila 20 mpg. That is a big deal for a pick up truck.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(etyler88 @ Apr 30 2007, 09:41 AM) [snapback]432529[/snapback]</div>

The EPA is changing the way they measure/calculate MPG. ALL mileage estimate are expected to go down.

By the way, don't count hybrid performance in the future against hybrid performance in the here and now. GM has yet to deliver ANY hybrid vehicles and may never do so. The "hollow" hybrids they just cancelled are not really hybrids. "Hollow" is the description used by the Union of concerned Scientists.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(fan-atic @ Apr 30 2007, 10:38 AM) [snapback]432582[/snapback]</div>

He's already stated the new EPA numbers. Furthermore, there are no hybrid pickups worth noting. Toyota doesn't have one. The comparison isn't between the Prius with the Sierra. The GM trucks mentioned get similar or better gas mileage than the Tundra.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(tripp @ Apr 30 2007, 12:02 PM) [snapback]432594[/snapback]</div>

...seems like there is still enough wiggle room in the EPA calculations to make real life mileage about equal for both vehicles. Especially considering that the bluff aerodynamic qualities of SUV's and trucks are still not taken into consideration.

Big, overdriven V8's actually do pretty well for themselves in the EPA freeway/high speed portion of the tests, which I believe will weigh more heavily in the new calculations and favor both the GM and Toyota trucks.

Again, I don't think it's really a big deal one way or another.

I think the real problem is that GM sullied the 'hybrid' name with a cheap, ill conceived marketing ploy. If anything, it did more damage in the 'keep on truckin' ranks than it did good, I believe.

 

Side question: what ever happened to compact pickup trucks? Did consumers "need" (said sarcastically) more size in their haulers?

If the trends from the 1970's continues, every other commute vehicle will be a dump truck by 2050.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(etyler88 @ Apr 30 2007, 08:27 AM) [snapback]432488[/snapback]</div>

A tip of the cap for pulling off their meager hybrid and not having plans to replace it for 18 months (if all goes well)? And 25% improvement to the mpg is considered a "huge increase in fuel economy"? 30-40% improvement is standard for hybrids, more than 50% would be where I start thinking using "huge" is allowed.

Granted, the Tundra is not a benefit to the environment, but GM certainly isn't making much of a splash in the hybrid pool. Still, most of the blame goes to consumers who think they need/deserve something like this to go get groceries and take the kid to daycare. Toyota better have a hybrid version of the Tundra available within 18 months or those won't be selling either, as gas prices go over $4/gal.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Delta Flyer @ Apr 30 2007, 01:46 PM) [snapback]432673[/snapback]</div>

There's nothing we can do; our busy and complex American 'lifestyles' 'demand' vehicles with more size and greater performance.

That's just the way it is...

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(nerfer @ Apr 30 2007, 01:53 PM) [snapback]432684[/snapback]</div>

Every time GM jumps into the hybrid pool, we have to add extra chlorine!

 

You know, if you really want to compare apples to apples, the 2007 Chevy Silverado 4x4 equipped with a 4.8L V-8 and the 2007 Toyota Tundra equipped with the 4.7L V-8 both get 15mpg per the new standards.

The 2wd Chevy gets 16 mpg while the 2wd Toy gets...15 mpg.

So really, I have yet to see a full size truck get any decent kind of mileage. The full-size trucks really started going backwards in fuel economy the moment manual transmissions became phased out. Anymore, it seems like you have to get a 1 ton diesel in order to have an optional manual transmission. My 1999 Dodge Ram 1500 4x4 Quad Cab with the 5.2L V-8 and a 5-speed NV3500 manual transmission managed 19 mpg on the highway going an average speed of about 60 mph - that was figured doing manual calculations by hand. Mind you, she had a K&N FIPK, headers, a high-flow cat, and a nice cat-back exhaust. These stock fullsize 2wds manage about 17 mpg on the highway. 17!! I think that the engineers are working backwards, not forwards!

In all seriousness, though, I think if GM can get a hybrid Silverado to sell, then maybe they'll manage to pull off something spectacular. Keep in mind, though, that Toyota is considering a hybrid drive train option for every vehicle in their lineup. They've done it with 2 so far...with a third only having a hybrid drive train as its propulsion.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(ozyran @ Apr 30 2007, 02:08 PM) [snapback]432695[/snapback]</div>

IMHO, manual transmissions in the 1970's made almost as much difference as hybrids do today.

I just have to laugh when some young punk in a big pickup truck slams the accelerator and the engine is working to drive the automatic. Result: huge flautant sound out of the bullet muffler. :blink: Of course, many women have told me they have men that actually think that's a turn on.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(etyler88 @ Apr 30 2007, 08:27 AM) [snapback]432488[/snapback]</div>

If. If GM makes a truck that runs entirely off of lollipops and smiles, that will be even better.

But until they're actually in the dealers' lots, I'm keeping my cap on.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Delta Flyer @ Apr 30 2007, 02:17 PM) [snapback]432702[/snapback]</div>

I don't know if I'm worried more about the inherent inefficiencies of an automatic transmission...or the type of woman you're hanging around with!
[laughing]


What's gonna make a hybrid full-size 4x4 truck or truck-based SUV really sell is if the military purchases some of the vehicles (a la the original Hummer).

That'll give them more 'rough and tough' streed cred than the advertising folks could ever hope of creating.

Before long, that hybrid system will be powering all sorts of 'camping' gear (driving those of us who'd rather not here the basketball game or latest Pat Travers single even further into the woods) and elevating the intensity and caloric content of tailgate parties throughout the land.

Just think of it...no more lugging around that foreign-made Honda generator to power all of the toys!

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Pinto Girl @ Apr 30 2007, 03:18 PM) [snapback]432738[/snapback]</div>

I wish they would do something - see this 1998 article! http://evworld.com/archives/conferences/evs14/humvee.html

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Delta Flyer @ Apr 30 2007, 02:46 PM) [snapback]432673[/snapback]</div>

This doesn’t apply to every job or application but some people actually need the big f350 sized trucks. For most households do it yourself repairs you can use a small pickup. A friend of mine does a lot of repairs on his home but rents a truck from uhaul or what ever when he needs the hauling capacity.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(IAO @ Apr 30 2007, 04:28 PM) [snapback]432784[/snapback]</div>

I agree the big haulers definitely have their place, but at least 45% of Americans are driving some kind of light pickup. Anyone seriously think most of those vehicles are getting a serious workout?

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Delta Flyer @ Apr 30 2007, 04:25 PM) [snapback]432750[/snapback]</div>

Dude you would not believe some of the cool toys spec ops uses.

Here is a funny one for you. They have battlefield computers that allow units to share info between vehicles, target locations, location of friendly units, etc etc. well they mounted the comps on the roof of the vehicle and the when the case gets over 110f it shuts off the comp. during the summer day time temps exceed 130f (some days it gets 140f+) at night (2am) it is still 105f+ the computers are useless.

Well until recently they have begun putting ac units in the vehicles. Imagine having a vehicle with no ac think armored plating leaving you a small ineffective window and to be 100% safe it has to be closed. They thought we could drive around with the vehicle closed up and all our personal gear on no ac and be just fine. Finally came the ac and we were glad but when it breaks and stops working that sucks.


<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Delta Flyer @ Apr 30 2007, 05:36 PM) [snapback]432788[/snapback]</div>

Oh I agree I bet 90% of the big trucks never get used as one. especially the lifted ones with all the chrome and custom paint jobs. The drivers have off road tires and suspensions but because of the paint job they don’t go off road for fear of scratching it.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Delta Flyer @ Apr 30 2007, 05:36 PM) [snapback]432788[/snapback]</div>

I use mine almost all the time hauling sound equipment for the church, helping friends move, or hauling stuff to the dump. The truck I do this with is in my sig

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(cwerdna @ Apr 30 2007, 01:51 AM) [snapback]432424[/snapback]</div>

I doubt anyone buying a truck is looking at fuel economy first. I suspect payload capacity and durability run 1 and 2. With just 3000 produced maybe GM created a collectible. How long do the hybrid units sit on the lot compared to the standard ones?

I'm old enough to remember when trucks were bought just for work and were utilitarian. No carpet, no AC, no automatic tranny, one tailight and windshield wiper were options.