Hybrid tussle: Prius vs Civic

I test drove both cars a couple of times before deciding- the HCH and the Prius were the only contenders. HSD is a more advance system than the Honda's IMA, but they are both excellent cars and you can't go wrong with Honda or Toyota. I would tell people drive both, and decide which one appeals to you more and which meets your needs better.

 

Exchange rate $1.00 U.S. = $1.34 Australian.

Some of his facts are questionable and his explanations are over simplistic but his conclusions seem valid. Can you really drive a HCH on electric only?

 

and the priis main propulsion is not from battery... at least not for long... and the gas engine is still used to put that charge in... it is true though that the Prius can run longer with the engine off in stop/go traffic which is cool... if not an end in itself.

long term I think Toyotas strategy is the right one, as it should lead towards extended EV mode, plug-in and hopefully pure EV. Honda's path more goes down a path of light and lighter car which seems more like a dead end.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(SomervillePrius @ Jun 9 2006, 04:04 PM) [snapback]268798[/snapback]</div>

There was an interesting article in Discover magazine a few months ago by a guy who is well known in the energy efficiency field. One of his pet peeves is that auto manufacturers appear to be missing the boat on one of the best ways to improve efficiency, namely lighten up the vehicles. Just think about where we are now. A typical car weighs about 3,000 lbs and typically hauls around a single occupant that weighs about 20 times less (ca 150 lbs). That means that the car spends about 90% of its fuel just to propel the car, not its passenger! Imagine the fuel improvements if a vehicle could be made 50% lighter. That would nearly double the MPGs! Couple that with a hybrid and the fuel savings are quite dramatic. This could even apply to SUVs -- use appropriately lightweight materials and even relatively big vehichles could be almost as fuel efficient as our smaller vehicles today with similar performance. The key to lightening up vehicles, he believes, is the development of composites such as carbon fiber, carbon nanotubes, etc. He just doesn't get why car manufacturers are not investing in these technologies.

It seems to me that improvements need to come from a number of areas such as batteries, ultracapacitors, PHEVs, ICEs, inverters, material weight, aerodynamic drag, alternative fuels, emission controls, etc. to give us the improved vehicles we need in the future.

 

Looking at the cost of a carbon fiber bicycle, I have no doubts why they're not making cars out of the stuff. Maybe a Ferrari someday?

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(kram @ Jun 9 2006, 01:59 PM) [snapback]268852[/snapback]</div>

I don't think anyone is missing the point, its a well known fact (look at the motorcycle). But the issue happens to be with safety. Try arguing with a rabid SUV driver ESPECIALLY one that is a parent. One of the first things they fire off is safety since people tend to have the aura of invicinibility surrounding them in the name of a SUV. You can argue capacity of storage/people, you can argue fuel efficiency but one thing they usually will not budge on is their precious safety.

Little do they realize what they're really doing (whether they know it or not) is basically an arms escalation. smaller lighter cars while yes will have tremendous damage if you go head on is not the norm which people can't fathom, yet if you try to tell them two SUVs going head on at a similar speed they almost dismiss that fact. Then up comes the arguments of getting hit by everyone else with a SUV, or that infamous "drunk driver" that everyone seems to know someone who got hit by one or some accident they experienced where they hardly had a scratch but the toyota was crushed, etc and that's the end all be all of defenses for them and driving a huge hunk o' metal.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(MikeSF @ Jun 9 2006, 02:40 PM) [snapback]268875[/snapback]</div>

I agree with what you say but their dedication to what they see as "safety" and protection of their offspring only goes as far as their wallet. If gasoline goes to $5 or $6 per gallon they will dump the SUVs and to hell with protecting the kids.

 

I agree that safety is a concern and that many equate size and weight with safety. However, the modern car is both lighter and safer than a similar type of car was a half century ago. Going forward we should be able to engineer our vehicles to be both safer and lighter still. And if they can be big as well with similar fuel efficiency that will appeal to at least some people.

One article I read a while back suggested that most people who purchased SUVs did so mostly so that they could see the road better -- they were higher than most cars. Now with a large portion of people driving big vehicles this is no longer as big an advantage. Would much lighter car materials incite another round of even bigger vehicles? And what would happen if vehicles could be made 50% or even 75% lighter with good fuel efficiency? Would vehicles tend toward the size of step-vans? An interesting and perhaps scary thought.

 

hey i never knew the civic in australia have different headlights
hmm, intereting
i like the one here better
but still, i like the prius better

 

Rented both the Honda Civic Hybrid and the Prius each for three days. The Prius had much less road noise and seemed bigger inside. Bought the Prius.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(MikeSF @ Jun 9 2006, 03:40 PM) [snapback]268875[/snapback]</div>

Until the bloody thing rolls over.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(MikeSF @ Jun 9 2006, 03:40 PM) [snapback]268875[/snapback]</div>

Until they hit another SUV or a tree. Then eveyones' dead because those things are so rigid. When they hit some like a tree the occupants end up absorbing a tremendous amount of energy. They're just deluding themselves, really. They might come out fine in a variety of accidents, but they're gonna suffer badly in similarly large variety of accidents all because of the poor design of those ridig, top heavy vehicles.

 

oh the csx is only avaliable in canada?
is it like a high class civic?

 

The problem isn't so much larger SUVs or pickup trucks as it is semi-tractor trailers. If you're hit by a moving mass that large while driving a large SUV, even if it's not moving that fast, you stand a good chance of surviving.

While my Prius is great, I'm not exactly thrilled with the prospect of being flattened by a semi on the highway. Chances of survival are likely diminished quite a bit when compared with that of being in a large SUV.

Until semi-trailers standards are changed to make them lighter (which isn't bloody likely), it's doubtful that the push to make all vehicles lighter isn't going to go far.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(brandon @ Jun 10 2006, 11:28 PM) [snapback]269395[/snapback]</div>

In a collision between a large mass and a small one the large mass wins. Any advantage a smaller vechicle may have is limited to an increased ability avoiding a collision in the first place. Once metal meets metal the big dog wins.