Hybrid Battery Shows Full, yet No Range?

Discussion in 'Gen 1 Prius Plug-in 2012-2015' started by cirruspete, Apr 6, 2012.

Page 1 of 2
  1. cirruspete

    cirruspete Junior Member

    Joined:
    Sep 8, 2004
    75
    23
    0
    Location:
    Sonora, CA
    Vehicle:
    2017 Prius Prime
    Model:
    Plug-in Advanced
    OK, I'm only day 3 with my new PiP, but 8 years of 2004 Prius 2 ownership has me guessing as to what I'm doing wrong (or not understanding).

    I plugged in the charger two days ago, filled its "tank" so to speak, and proceeded to commute to San Francisco (17 miles one-way). I used Eco-Mode, which I take to mean a standard mode, an optimized blending of electrons and gasoline done by the Prius' computer- like my 2004, right?

    Observing all the procedures to capture and store energy, like coasting and partial braking, my dashboard display battery icon has shown from 1/3 to nearly full most of the time. And, the Energy screen graphic that depicts the car, the ICE, the electric motor, and the large, flat battery with "bars" indicating state of charge also shows almost full.

    BUT- Every time I push the "EV" button- to try to run on electricity alone- I get the warning "Battery is depleted" (or something to that effect) on the dash display, and the car will not run at all in EV.

    So... is there another, second battery whose charge state is being displayed on the dash icon - maybe like the very short-range battery like in my 2004 Prius?

    Is the main EV battery only recharged through the plug-in charger?

    I'll confess that I spent about 2 hours skimming the 700+ pages in the two manuals the other night, but I'll be darned if I can find anything that discusses what I'm experiencing. So, if any of you long-term (!) PiP owners have any wisdom to share, I'd sure appreciate it - thanks much, Peter
     
    #1 cirruspete, Apr 6, 2012
  2. Paradox

    Paradox Prius Enthusiast / Moderator
    Staff Member

    Joined:
    Sep 22, 2005
    29,110
    8,591
    201
    Location:
    USA
    Vehicle:
    2014 Prius v wagon
    Model:
    Five
    When the battery icon on the MID display shows bars rather than a solid color you're either towards the end (usually .8 miles) of EV range or have already used it up and no in HV mode. Only EV mode shows a solid color battery, HV mode (or like I said the very tail end of EV charge remaining) shows the battery in bars like a regular Prius.
     
    #2 Paradox, Apr 6, 2012
  3. cirruspete

    cirruspete Junior Member

    Joined:
    Sep 8, 2004
    75
    23
    0
    Location:
    Sonora, CA
    Vehicle:
    2017 Prius Prime
    Model:
    Plug-in Advanced
    Hi Mark- and thanks for the rocket-fast reply. I'll go back to the Manual and re-read the display part.
    Can you confirm that regenerative braking and coasting will indeed replenish the electric-only EV mode's energy supply?
     
    #3 cirruspete, Apr 6, 2012
  4. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

    Joined:
    May 11, 2005
    110,549
    50,248
    0
    Location:
    boston
    Vehicle:
    2012 Prius Plug-in
    Model:
    Plug-in Base
    yes, and you can find a thread here in detail. but if you don't have any serious downhill, you're not gonna get much.
     
    #4 bisco, Apr 6, 2012
  5. Allannde

    Allannde Just a Senior

    Joined:
    Jan 7, 2006
    874
    138
    0
    Location:
    Washington State
    Vehicle:
    2012 Prius Plug-in
    Model:
    Plug-in Advanced
    I had exactly the same problem.

    The answer is that the battery symbol which shows remaining charge, the square thing which looks like a ladder with horizontal marks and "fills up" shows two colors. If it is slightly blue green, it is showing enough charge for driving in EV. If it is a lighter cream/grey color, it is showing just what is needed for HV driving like the non plug in Prius.

    The car is telling you what needs to be done. You need another charge.

    I couldn't find anything in the manual either. The tech at my dealer had an explanation in his documents. This SHOULD be in the owner's manual!
     
    #5 Allannde, Apr 6, 2012
    1 person likes this.
  6. SimiPrius

    SimiPrius Member

    Joined:
    May 8, 2010
    247
    60
    0
    Location:
    Simi Valley,Ca
    Vehicle:
    2012 Prius Plug-in
    It will regenerate, but of you have fully depleted the EV battery, you would have to do a lot of regenerative/downhill driving to get enough charge to allow the car to flip back to the EV mode.
     
    #6 SimiPrius, Apr 6, 2012
    1 person likes this.
  7. devprius

    devprius /dev/geek

    Joined:
    Jan 2, 2006
    979
    291
    0
    Location:
    San Francisco Bay Area, CA
    Vehicle:
    2012 Prius Plug-in
    Model:
    Plug-in Base
    It is in the manual. Page 60 specifically discusses this, but there's more info on pages 58, 59 & 268 as well.
     
    #7 devprius, Apr 6, 2012
    2 people like this.
  8. devprius

    devprius /dev/geek

    Joined:
    Jan 2, 2006
    979
    291
    0
    Location:
    San Francisco Bay Area, CA
    Vehicle:
    2012 Prius Plug-in
    Model:
    Plug-in Base
    There is only one big battery that is used for both EV and HV modes. When you started out, did you happen to notice if the battery icon was a segmented display like your 2004, or was it solid and also showed a "EV Range: X.Y miles" indicator? You have EV range when the battery is solid. Once it turns to a segmented display, you have pretty much depleted the EV range of the battery pack and you are now in normal HV mode (just like your 2004). It will change from a solid battery to a segmented battery when you reach .7 miles. When you have completely depleted EV mode, there will be six segmented battery bars on the display.

    The car will regenerate back into EV mode. I see this everyday on my way home from work. It will not let you go back into EV mode until the battery has turned solid again and you have .8 miles of EV range again.

    See page 60 of the manual for more specifics. There's also additional info on pages 58, 59 and 268.
     
    #8 devprius, Apr 6, 2012
    1 person likes this.
  9. john1701a

    john1701a Prius Guru

    Joined:
    Jan 6, 2004
    12,779
    5,258
    57
    Location:
    Minnesota
    Vehicle:
    2017 Prius Prime
    Model:
    Prime Advanced
    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    The above 2 examples are both EV mode. Notice there's only an "EV" symbol. There's an estimated range displayed too.

    .

    The example below is HV mode, where both the "EV" and "ECO" symbol are available. No range means exactly that, driving is like a regular (no plug) Prius. When the "EV" symbol illuminates, that is an indication of the engine stopped (0 RPM).
    [​IMG]

    .
     
    #9 john1701a, Apr 6, 2012
    2 people like this.
  10. cirruspete

    cirruspete Junior Member

    Joined:
    Sep 8, 2004
    75
    23
    0
    Location:
    Sonora, CA
    Vehicle:
    2017 Prius Prime
    Model:
    Plug-in Advanced
    To all who replied - many thanks for the great info, wisdom, and patience! I understand now what the MID display means. I'd have gladly paid for the help- but instead, I did order through PriusChat the rear cargo carpet/mat. Thanks again.... now... to that iPhone>Bluetooth>can't change Playlist on the screen due to missing arrows problem (posted earlier) can anyone tell me how to fix that problem?

    I'm about to try the new Homelink two-stage programming procedure and will report back.
     
    #10 cirruspete, Apr 6, 2012
  11. Paradox

    Paradox Prius Enthusiast / Moderator
    Staff Member

    Joined:
    Sep 22, 2005
    29,110
    8,591
    201
    Location:
    USA
    Vehicle:
    2014 Prius v wagon
    Model:
    Five
    If you run the EV charge down low enough that the car is forced into HV mode itself basically forget about getting back into EV mode unless you plug in.

    What I do, if I will be going a lot more miles after EV will run out is switch into HV mode myself with say 2 miles EV left. Then everytime I coast, brake from a high rate of speed (say 35mph or more) or especially coast down a long hill I go back into EV. That builds up the charge. once you need to give it gas again, go back into HV mode. Each time you do this it'll stack the recharge you gained and you can do some serious recharging of EV range without plugging in if things are 'right'.

    You ask, why not stay in HV mode and build up the charge. It was my experience that if you do this, yes it will build up EV range on braking or hill descents but if you gain .5 miles range through recharge the car uses that gain to help better MPG by assisting the engine more. On a trip I'd rather the charges stack so I have more range upon getting off the highway at my destination since I know at my destination I cannot recharge.
     
    #11 Paradox, Apr 6, 2012
    2 people like this.
  12. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

    Joined:
    May 11, 2005
    110,549
    50,248
    0
    Location:
    boston
    Vehicle:
    2012 Prius Plug-in
    Model:
    Plug-in Base
    lucy, i got a lotta learnin' to do!
     
    #12 bisco, Apr 6, 2012
  13. Allannde

    Allannde Just a Senior

    Joined:
    Jan 7, 2006
    874
    138
    0
    Location:
    Washington State
    Vehicle:
    2012 Prius Plug-in
    Model:
    Plug-in Advanced
    I totally agree

    So far I have not figured out how to save charge by going right into HV with a full charge. In just a thirty mile drive I used up half a charge in HV. This results in great mpg but no EV remaining at the end of the trip. I still have not mastered what Paradox does. After all, I just broke 100 miles so I have a way to go.
     
    #13 Allannde, Apr 6, 2012
  14. Paradox

    Paradox Prius Enthusiast / Moderator
    Staff Member

    Joined:
    Sep 22, 2005
    29,110
    8,591
    201
    Location:
    USA
    Vehicle:
    2014 Prius v wagon
    Model:
    Five
    When you first kick over into hv it uses a lot of battery, as if you were still in ev but after about 45 seconds ' real' hv mode takes over. after a bit in hv mode the engine brings you back to what your range was when you kicked over. If you go into hv manually right before going up a hill though you will still continue to use alot of range so kick over with enough time. It takes practice and experimentation to perfect it and even fully understand it...

    EVO 4G ?.
     
    #14 Paradox, Apr 6, 2012
    2 people like this.
  15. SCDrJ

    SCDrJ New Member

    Joined:
    Jun 18, 2006
    120
    20
    0
    Location:
    Orange County, CA
    Vehicle:
    2012 Prius Plug-in
    Model:
    Plug-in Base
    Peter - try running in EV mode even on the freeway. If your ride is 17 miles even at freeway speeds you will get some benefit of the EV mode, even if not running ONLY on EV alone.

    This is what I do for about 30 mile commute, but I do recharge at work (I have no EV range left when I get there):

    EV mode from house to freeway - 1-2mi
    HV mode up hills for about 8-10mi
    EV down big hill to regenerate - 2mi
    EV on flattish freeway for 12-13mi, only switch to HV if I get down to EV range of 1.5mi or so
    EV off freeway to work 1-2mi

    I get about 60mpg to work, and 70mpg back home. I am still learning and have just recently experienced what Paradox is talking about: if you switch to HV right as you go uphill, you use more range
     
    #15 SCDrJ, Apr 6, 2012
  16. Paradox

    Paradox Prius Enthusiast / Moderator
    Staff Member

    Joined:
    Sep 22, 2005
    29,110
    8,591
    201
    Location:
    USA
    Vehicle:
    2014 Prius v wagon
    Model:
    Five
    As long as I'm not away in a 'foreign place' and don't know the roads, I activate HV mode about a minute before I know I want the engine because I'll be going over a long uphill climb. If you wait till the last minute, you will further waste EV range needlessly. But, if you anticipate it, and activate HV mode in advance you will use the engine instead of 'mega-range' while going up and even regenerate back up to what you EV distance was when you performed the switchover from EV into HV. Then, once I hit the top and begin my downhill descent, I pop back into EV mode and coast the rest of the way.

    To add more, if you switch over into HV last minute on say an uphill climb, you will continue to use EV range for the uphill climb until the engine warms up appropriately for say 45 seconds to a minute. Then by the time you hit the top and switch back into EV you lost your range anyway and there is no benefit to what you can recapture. If you switch over early enough in anticipation, you'll use the engine for uphill climb, but pretty much keep EV range intact. Then, on downhill descent, go into EV and you will recapture a decent amount of range in addition to what you had before the hill.

    I've used the technique I mentioned quite a few posts above and on a trip into Queens which was only about 20 miles I was still able to go from 5 miles EV range to 8.5 miles EV range by the time I got there... That was all by switching over to EV while in HV on the highway for braking when traffic was ahead or getting off ramps, going downhill etc.
     
    #16 Paradox, Apr 6, 2012
  17. john1701a

    john1701a Prius Guru

    Joined:
    Jan 6, 2004
    12,779
    5,258
    57
    Location:
    Minnesota
    Vehicle:
    2017 Prius Prime
    Model:
    Prime Advanced
    That's great advice, but it is helpful to also point out anticipation of total usage.

    I did that preserve/replenish the other day and ended up with EV still remaining when I got home. Oops!
    .
     
    #17 john1701a, Apr 6, 2012
  18. Paradox

    Paradox Prius Enthusiast / Moderator
    Staff Member

    Joined:
    Sep 22, 2005
    29,110
    8,591
    201
    Location:
    USA
    Vehicle:
    2014 Prius v wagon
    Model:
    Five
    Yeah, I hear ya' John, I did that too when coming back from Lancaster PA. But because of that, I learned where I need to be at in terms of EV range while descending from the Goethals Bridge so now I know how much to have at switchover to make it home within .5 miles EV range.

    For trips you do often around your home area, it is imperative you experiment to maximize efficiency or what works best for you. I had someone over the other day from Con Edison, the local electric utility in the NYC area for a test project they are going to perform for discounted rates for Plug-in/EV vehicle owners, and he came in a Volt. He said to me how he wished he had to ability to switch over when he wanted to to use the engine and essentially preserve his EV range. I said funny, my Toyota Prius Plug-in has just that option. He was quite impressed how they built the car that way and further impressed when I explained to him how I could stack my EV range at will on a semi-long/long trip and arrive at my destination with a full charge again.
     
    #18 Paradox, Apr 6, 2012
    1 person likes this.
  19. 9G-man

    9G-man Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jul 2, 2005
    1,273
    194
    0
    Location:
    Atlanta, GA
    Vehicle:
    2012 Prius Plug-in
    Model:
    Plug-in Base
    #19 9G-man, Apr 6, 2012
  20. andyprius

    andyprius Senior Member

    Joined:
    Feb 21, 2005
    2,212
    188
    0
    Location:
    Sacramento, California.
    Vehicle:
    2012 Prius Plug-in
    Model:
    Plug-in Base
    I just received a nice Email from a rep from SMUD explaining in detail why a discounted rate on my Pip would not be financially beneficiial. One because the ( my usage ), that's unclear, is less than 60KWHrs AND I would have to pay a electrician to install a separate line from my meter to the PIP. The discounted rate would only be .02 per KWHr. I will see if I can attach his Email.
     
    #20 andyprius, Apr 6, 2012
(You must log in or sign up to post here.)
Page 1 of 2