How to get people to understand that braking is the #1 cause of bad city mpg.

Discussion in 'Gen 3 Prius Fuel Economy' started by briank101, May 9, 2013.

  1. briank101

    briank101 Member

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    What is a good way to explain to the 99% of drivers out there that don't understand why braking is by far the biggest contributor to bad city mpg in any car?

    I almost get nowhere with most people. I suspect most people think....gas pedal uses gas, brake pedal doesn't use gas, and don't want to go beyond this level of thinking. When I bring up the fact that their excessive braking is to correct for the excessive acceleration that wasn't actually needed, you sense that either people are stuck in their ways or they just don't want to let a single car get in front of them, which now could add a second or two to their 40 minute commute. Is it greed?, Is it selfishness, Is it ego, pride,.....? It's likely certainly not financial, as unnecessary braking, in addition to increasing fuel costs, increases wear and tear costs, causes traffic waves, which may be the cause of most of our congestion and hence delays on freeways. For example, I usually notice that the lane with the most trucks (the "slow" lane) moves more freely in heavy traffic, and I usually come out ahead in time and better mpg by staying in this lane.
     
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  2. gliderman

    gliderman Active Member

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    If braking is the #1 cause, then it is actually #2. If you dont accelerate, you dont need to brake. So driving is actually the #1 cause of bad city mpg.:rolleyes:
     
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  3. DU3L NRG

    DU3L NRG Junior Member

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    Gas pedal, it consumes the gas. You said it yourself that gas is the reason, not braking.
     
  4. 2k1Toaster

    2k1Toaster Brand New Prius Batteries

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    Can't fix stupid and the majority are. Just let them be.

    The best cure? Start valuing education. When people are educated and learn basic math & physics (f=ma) it might stick and make more sense. Until then, they are doomed to ignorance.
     
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  5. cwerdna

    cwerdna Senior Member

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    Problem is on non-hybrids, when braking, all the kinetic energy possessed by the car is thrown away as useless heat and brake dust. The car and engine did work (and also produced mostly waste heat) in order to accelerate the car, only to have it all thrown away.

    At least w/hybrids, we can recapture some of it and re-purpose it for later use.

    And, to get moving again, you've got to burn more fuel...
     
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  6. Rupert B Puppenstein

    Rupert B Puppenstein Active Member

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    If that was always a true statement, I wouldn't get the great gas mileage that I typically do with city driving even when I drove a Honda Civic before this car. Guess I should be grateful for Atlanta traffic more than I am each day. Frankly, most people who don't drive hybrids could care less about gas mileage. If they cared about it, more people would drive the speed limit or at least a bit closer to it! I don't see the point of trying to educate people about something they aren't interested in already.
     
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  7. Sfcyclist

    Sfcyclist Senior Member

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  8. briank101

    briank101 Member

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    I guess it's like people (or governments) that spend beyond their means, the short term buzz, the excessive spending produces, temporarily rids their mind of the task of dealing with making ends meet at a later time. I now look back at my old car which had half the mpg, and think how inefficient and wasteful it was. I still don't get what twisted logic comes into play when a large pick-up truck or SUV driver accelerates really hard up to a red light and then slams hard on the brakes. I guess the only positive is that your body experienced more positive and negative g-forces and you showed off the power and engine roar to your fellow motorists.....I'm just speculating.
     
  9. CaliforniaBear

    CaliforniaBear Clearwater Blue Metallic

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    There's braking and there's braking. Using ScanGauge II you can determine if you are using friction braking. It turns out that most (80%?) of the HSI breaking area is regenerative braking. Whatever your speed, when you have to stop the car you will use some braking. Assuming your speed is appropriate for the traffic conditions then gentle breaking should optimize your mpg as the regenerated battery charges is used.

    Alternately you could ignore those stop signs and red lights but that's probably not a good idea. :)
     
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  10. ftl

    ftl Explicator

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    What's the ScanGauge code to show the braking mode?
     
  11. CaliforniaBear

    CaliforniaBear Clearwater Blue Metallic

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    Friction Brake Sensor 07B02107 046145070000 2808 00020001FFCE FRI
    0.00-4.50 (Shows actual friction braking amount)

    On this page Welcome to Google Docs
     
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  12. bedrock8x

    bedrock8x Senior Member

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    In a congested heavy traffic city driving, fast acceleration sometimes saves gas.
    For a busy intersection, if you do not accelerate fast when the light turns green, you may not get through when you are behind many cars and stuck for 2 or more minutes for the next green. You are burning more gas idling, of cause hybrids do not count.
     
  13. ftl

    ftl Explicator

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    Thanks! I just entered this and will check on my next drive.
     
  14. Corwyn

    Corwyn Energy Curmudgeon

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    They DO care about what they spend at the pump. Most people seem to think that they get the mileage that is on the sticker on their car. YMMV just doesn't register, or the degree to which it can vary doesn't register, or how much personal control they have over it doesn't register.
     
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  15. skwcrj

    skwcrj Member

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    Most care what they pay at the pump. But, they don't care or understand that their driving style great influences what they pay at the pump.
     
  16. briank101

    briank101 Member

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    I accelerate quickly every time I know with high probability that I won't be immediately turning that momentum into brake dust or re-gen. I usually try not go beyond the right side of the power band in HSI though, but if I happen to, it's absolutely nothing compared to the frustration I feel when I have to do an unexpected full friction brake. When I do have to slow down in normal driving and to try blend in with other drivers as much as possible, I choose glide with no-gen and then 50% regen in the HSI (as opposed to the fake drag along with 100% regen at the end) as 50% regen (60 amp braking) gives the most efficient re-gen. Of course this involves practice to perfect the best moment to initiate re-gen. Of course in an closed course mpg competition I would use no braking or no re-gen at all.
    I must say a pet peeve of mine is when drivers move to the lane beside me when they see me coast or re-gen to a stop, assuming that I'm going to accelerate as slowly as I decelerated.

    Now does any automaker's Eco Score display figure % friction braking, % regen braking (inc. regen fake drag), and % battery use with appropriate weightings into the over all Eco Score value.?????? I suspect most such displays emphasize speed and acceleration metrics, but I'm open to correction. Any thoughts.
     
  17. FriarNurgle

    FriarNurgle Member

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    Having just got my Prius last month I'm beginning to realize how heavy footed people are upon acceleration. I'm sure my foot was just as bad with my previous vehicle. Having that indicator on the dash is like being yelled at by the lifeguard for running at the pool. Only problem is that if I don't put that indicator into the far right pwr area I'll end up getting rear ended, honked at, and flipped the bird on a daily basic. My only consolation is that even in heavy stop and "slam on the gas" go traffic the Prius can still hit close to 50 mpg. Plus when you take those nice leisurely trips out to lower populated areas the mpg climbs as does my snooty mpg bragging.
     
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  18. CaliforniaBear

    CaliforniaBear Clearwater Blue Metallic

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    Its really a shame that we have to worry about driving in a reasonable manner :(
     
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  19. briank101

    briank101 Member

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    Which is the point about not focusing on the acceleration too much, I at least accelerate as fast other drivers. Note the Prius doesn't enrich the fuel at higher power levels, so you're ahead of the game already, and if you don't brake too much, nearly all that motive force is going into productive kinetic energy or momentum. Actually theoretically if an engine consumed 10 times the fuel, but produced 10 times the power, it would just as efficient to accelerate 10 times as quickly. Fortunately, a Prius Gen III accelerating with 75 hp is only 5% less efficient than accelerating with 30 hp, and that 5% is only for the duration of the acceleration. As the amount of time with 75 hp acceleration is only a small portion of the overall consumption, figure a less than 1% impact on fuel mileage when doing quick acceleration, but figure a 10 to 50% impact with quick or repetitive braking (that is for example, when trying to keep a car length from the car in front of you). Look at it a small reward (or mpg opportunity) every time you see slow or stopped traffic a half mile ahead, where you can enjoy a zero consumption ride, harnessing the momentum you efficiently generated earlier.

    Note: Following drivers are never annoyed by my acceleration, but often by my gliding to a red light habit. If they looked at the positive side, I've saved them waiting longer stopped at the red light.

    Advice to fellow Prius drivers, don't annoy other drivers by slow acceleration, it's not gaining you or them much in mpg.
     
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  20. Witness

    Witness Active Member

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    So, are you suggesting I take Eco mode off and achieve my target speed more quickly? Would you suggest selecting Power mode to pull off the line faster?