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how to connect to positive battery post

Discussion in 'Gen 3 Prius Audio and Electronics' started by d.joulez, Sep 6, 2023.

  1. d.joulez

    d.joulez Junior Member

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    hi -

    installing a new powered sub into my 2014 prius plug in.

    i noticed there were two spots to connect my power wire and I chose the one closer to the front of the car. Anyone know the difference between A and B?

    And if using A is safe?
    Thx!
    Screenshot 2023-09-06 at 6.21.54 PM.png
     
  2. Mendel Leisk

    Mendel Leisk EGR Fanatic

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    They’re “bedfellows”. I’d go with “A”, it’s less likely to get crusty, and the connection would be undisturbed if you were swapping to a new battery. It looks to be purpose-built for connecting accessories like yours.
     
  3. ASRDogman

    ASRDogman Senior Member

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    "B" holds the clamp to the post. "A" is for Main power and accessories....
     
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  4. Grit

    Grit Senior Member

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    B will set off tiny sparks as you loosen and tighten it. Been there done that, both A and B on mine are used for other connections.
     
  5. ChapmanF

    ChapmanF Senior Member

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    Neither one is ideal. If you loosen that clamp and lift it off the battery post, you will notice it drapes down over the side of the battery and contains a 140 amp fuse, and there is another place you can connect—let's call it C—at the bottom end of that fuse.

    C, for the win, for two reasons. First, your added wiring is now protected from the battery by the 140 amp fuse. You still need your own fuse sized appropriately for your sub and your added wiring, but the 140 amp 'feeder' fuse helps limit what your added fuse and wiring can be exposed to.

    Second, most of the time, as you listen to music with your car in READY, the power isn't coming from the battery, it's coming from the inverter in the front of the car, and connecting at C, you have shortened that path by not having the 140 amp battery fuse in it. (There is still a 125 amp fuse at the front of that cable, protecting the inverter output, so by connecting at C, you have a tap point that is protected that way from both ends.)

    It's a little tough to see in this pic because of so much other stuff around, but you can see the solar charger kind of velcro'd on where that fuse hangs down over the side of the battery, and the cable tapping off to the added fuse box is attached at the bottom end there.

    [​IMG]

    Point A is purpose-built to give you a way to change the 140 amp fuse if you have to.
     
    #5 ChapmanF, Sep 6, 2023
    Last edited: Sep 6, 2023
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  6. Grit

    Grit Senior Member

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    We can create an option and not use the given?

    Id go with D, buy a battery clamp that has multiple bolts to provide better and safer connections.

    D takes the cake and champagne bottle.
     
  7. ChapmanF

    ChapmanF Senior Member

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    D is exactly as bad as A and B, for the same reasons.
     
  8. d.joulez

    d.joulez Junior Member

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    any idea the size of the wire from the inverter to the 12v battery?
     
  9. ChapmanF

    ChapmanF Senior Member

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    Start by working out the maximum current in amps you expect your inverter to draw from the 12V battery.

    Because the inverter's output is nominally 120 V and the input is nominally 12, for a quick estimate you can just take the total amps you expect your 120 V appliances to draw, and multiply by 10.

    Suppose you end up, say, determining your inverter will draw 85 amps. Now do two things:

    1. Make sure you choose a type and gauge of wire with adequate ampacity, say 20% higher (85 ✕ 1.20 = 102). You can look that right up in a published ampacity table. It doesn't depend on the run length.
    2. Make sure your wiring will not have excessive voltage drop. You probably want it to drop no more than a volt or so from the battery to the inverter, while carrying your predicted current. This does depend on the length of the run, so you start by choosing where your inverter will be, and add up the length of the + wire run and the length of the − wire run to your chosen ground point. Look up the resistance per foot of different wire gauges, multiply by the total length of your + and − runs, and multiply by your maximum expected current. The result is your voltage drop. Choose a wire gauge heavy enough to keep the voltage drop small.

    In 12-volt systems, often step (2) is what dominates; the voltage drop will drive you to a heavier wire than you would need just according to an ampacity table.
     
  10. d.joulez

    d.joulez Junior Member

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    Thanks for your response Chapman! Sorry for the confusion
    When I asked about the inverter, i meant the hybrid inverter under the hood of the prius.
    not a 120v inverter for appliances and camping.

    I'm asking these questions because of the music system I put into my 2014 prius plug in.
    I installed 2 amps using a distro block that are connected to the 12v battery at position A with a 4ga tinned OFC cable
    I couldn't figure out how to fit the new 4ga ring terminal at position C like you suggested
    There wasn't enough extra room at position C with the existing white cable there already.

    I also installed a 100a fuse on the new 4ga wire near the 12v battery

    The system plays and i haven't blown any fuses yet.

    But i'm experiencing an intermittent whine in the tweeters and the dash speakers.
    when the whine is present, the pitch goes up when i step more on the throttle
    the pitch also changes when I do things like turn on the headlights.

    The current hypothesis is that the original white cable from the hood to the 12v battery isn't big enough to supply the music amps.
    Even though the cable from the 12vbattery to the amps are 4ga, the existing white cable from the hood to the 12v is only a 8ga

    Currently, i'm leaning towards running a new 0ga cable from the inverter itself, through the firewall, and to a 2nd 12v battery.
    Then using the new additional 12v battery to power all of the music gear
    leaving the original 12v entirely alone.

    I plan to connect to the inverter here with the new 0ga cable.
    upload_2024-11-4_19-12-42.png


    I'd really like to get your thoughts and opinion
    I'm curious to know if you're opinion on running the extra 0ga wire and 2nd battery will not improve the noise/whine before I go through the effort of trying it out
     
    #10 d.joulez, Nov 4, 2024 at 10:30 PM
    Last edited: Nov 4, 2024 at 11:06 PM
  11. Leadfoot J. McCoalroller

    Leadfoot J. McCoalroller Senior Member

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    I'll take ground loop for $1

     
  12. d.joulez

    d.joulez Junior Member

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    if the noise persists after i've removed all RCA cables from the amp would you still guess towards a ground loop issue?
     
  13. ChapmanF

    ChapmanF Senior Member

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    Aha. While that big silver box as a whole is called the "inverter assembly", there are different sections in it, and the section that produces the 12 volt supply is called the "DC/DC converter". Then I'd have known just what you meant. :)

    Interesting ... I might be remembering wrong, but 4 ga sounds about right for the wire I added at position C and I don't remember much trouble with it.

    It sounds, though, as if you hear the whine even at low volume levels or with all the RCA inputs disconnected—times when the music amps aren't drawing much at all, so it's hard to see how an undersized supply wire would be the hypothesis.

    It seems more likely to me that, well, all of the sections of the inverter assembly: the DC/DC converter, the boost converter, the MG1 inverter, and the MG2 inverter, do their work by switching currents at frequencies that may be in the audible range. The MG1 and MG2 switching frequencies also vary with MG1 and MG2 RPM, which fit well with your observation of pitch change with go pedal input.

    If you are hearing switching noise conducted to your amps over the power supply, I wouldn't expect a fatter wire to carry the noise any less. You might get a better result just by improving the supply noise filtering ahead of your amps.
     
  14. Leadfoot J. McCoalroller

    Leadfoot J. McCoalroller Senior Member

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    I am less inclined to think it is ground-loop if you still hear it with no audio ground coupling.

    @ChapmanF has just suggested the next thing on my list- input filtering.

    Get a ferrite bead or three and introduce that to the power line feeding the amp. Sometimes you can use just one clamp-on style, sometimes you need to get a real ring type and pass your power wire through it more than once.

    Plenty of youtubes out there to explain theory and practice of installation.
     
  15. d.joulez

    d.joulez Junior Member

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    thanks you two!

    I had a friend let me borrow an amp this morning and the new amp didn't cause any nosie.

    So it's the amp lol

    I'll give the ferrite bead a try still though while I shop for a new amp

    Thanks for the input!