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How does not driving a 2010 Prius for long periods affect the hybrid battery?

Discussion in 'Gen 3 Prius Technical Discussion' started by Mojavemojo, Sep 22, 2024.

  1. Mojavemojo

    Mojavemojo New Member

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    We recently lost our 2010 Prius when our insurance company declared it a total loss. It was easily the best vehicle we ever owned; had just under 50k miles when we bought it and made it to 215k miles without a single mechanical problem except a recall issue fully covered by Toyota and, during the last year, having to add oil every two weeks. Anyway, given how much we loved this car, we'd like to get another one. Don't want to finance cause of interest rates right now so we are looking to spend about $10-11k and pay cash. Which basically means we're looking to get another gen 3.
    Now, I found a 2010 with all the options we want, just over 100k miles and the price is right. CarFax shows 2 owners (first was a lease), no accidents and regular maintenance/oil changes. I noticed, however, that the car has been driven only 4,500 miles since early 2020. And there was a period of nearly 2 1/2 years (early 2020 to summer 2022) where it was driven only 600 miles. Given the timing, I suspect the owner's job went remote cause of COVID and they stopped commuting to work. No idea if they continued driving to their neighborhood grocery store once a week or had everything delivered and didn't use the car at all for many months—or even 1-2 years—at a time and since it's at a dealership they won't know. Assuming the car was not driven for long periods (could be anywhere from a few months to over 2 years), how would that affect the hybrid battery? Would it increase the chance that we'd have to replace it before 200k miles and, if so, approximately how much? Our old 2010 Prius was still running strong on the original hybrid battery at 215k miles but we did have to replace the 12v battery in 2020.
     
  2. Tombukt2

    Tombukt2 Senior Member

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    You're going to push your luck again that is almost laughable I wish you luck with that I would tell you not to push your luck because something will snap and it will cost you you spend 10 to 11 grand on another generation 3 maybe a generation 4 possibly even that will be pushing it but don't let me get into I told you so type of thing but you skated well so far The rink is about to thaw out and that may come to a grinding halt you skating on asphalt next which is instant stoppage and have an accident in the skating arena anyway Good luck my friend..
     
  3. rjparker

    rjparker Tu Humilde Sirviente

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    That was a huge mechanical problem that could have cost you $5k-$8k to replace the engine. Its very common on gen3s over 125k miles.

    No the chances are high regardless

    Even higher is the chance it will blow a head gasket or already has and is temporarily masked for a couple of months by sealer.
     
  4. MAX2

    MAX2 Member

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    The hybrid battery cannot be damaged by a small number of trips. In this series of cars (GEN3) the engine, coolant leak, faulty (dirty) EGR can be much more problematic.
     
  5. V Sport Wagon

    V Sport Wagon Active Member

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    It most certainly can and likely was. They drain out very fast and need to be driven daily or at least a couple times per week especially in extreme climates hot or cold. A new HV battery may be just fine, but a car at 200k short trips are horrible.
     
  6. Mojavemojo

    Mojavemojo New Member

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    So basically you're saying our experience with the gen 3 was atypical (it definitely wasn't our stellar maintenance that resulted in a problem-free 200k miles) and we shouldn't buy another used Prius since we can't afford to spend $22-30k on a recent one? Isn't it still one of the most reliable cars at over 100k miles though? At $10-11k almost everything is going to have close to 100k miles unless it's a Chevy Spark or something or, in some cases, a 12+ year-old car that hasn't been driven much.
     
  7. Mojavemojo

    Mojavemojo New Member

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    I realize the oil burning issue is common in higher mileage gen 3s (looked it up when it first started happening) but seems that unless the vehicle is also losing coolant, many people are able to keep driving for a long time just by adding oil every couple of weeks like we did. Also, ours was at close to 200k miles when it started happening and it was problem-free until then, which is nothing to sneeze at.

    I'm definitely more concerned about the head gasket issue than the hybrid battery given that the former is far more expensive and time-consuming to repair. Is there any data on what % of gen 3s over 100k miles have blown head gaskets? There's another 2010 Prius, this one at a Toyota dealer, that we're considering (also just over 100k miles) and the CarFax says the dealership replaced the "engine timing/front cover gasket." Is that an indication that it may have had the oil burning problem and this repair (hopefully) fixed it? And/or could it indicate a head gasket problem?
     
  8. ASRDogman

    ASRDogman Senior Member

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    They don't drain fast.... nor do they "need" to be driven daily, or every few days......
    You'll have more issues with the 12v battery they the hybrid battery. Unless it is weak.....

    Short trips and/or not driving is not good for the 12v battery. Keep a trickle charger on it when you're
    driving for several day if you are only making short trips.. Maybe less than 30 minutes?
     
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  9. rjparker

    rjparker Tu Humilde Sirviente

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    This is another common problem with gen3s and has nothing to do with head gasket fails or even excessive oil consumption. The timing cover leaks are seeps that might not be more than an ounce per 10k miles. However dealer cost to fix the seep is over $1200.

    A head gasket fail is very common these days. A small shop I use does about 50 a year. But he does not just replace the hg, they replace the engine even though it has not yet blown a hole in the block. He has far more engine replacements than hybrid battery repairs.

    The dealers around here have always replaced engines rather than risk come backs with a gasket job. A member last week posted about his diy hg replacement lasting only 27k miles.

    When someone has a gen3 budget driven purchase in mind I always recommend a conventional Corolla, Civic or Camry.
     
    #9 rjparker, Sep 23, 2024
    Last edited: Sep 23, 2024
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  10. ASRDogman

    ASRDogman Senior Member

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    If you can do the work yourself, you don't spend a $1000!
    Perhaps you should look for a 2015 model. It has the updated pistons and rings.

    Even though those 2010's you are looking at have lower mileage, they are close to the
    mileage where issues for the head gasket can appear.
    If those cars have more highway miles, you should be good. And they've changed the oil
    at 5000 miles or so.

    I'm certain you can get the price down quite a bit.

     
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  11. Mendel Leisk

    Mendel Leisk EGR Fanatic

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    The timing chain cover has proven prone to leak. Dealerships jump on that, and charge $1500~2000 to reseal it. It can be done with the engine in place. You do need to remove the engine mount, and I believe the water pump and oil filter bracket. Timing chain tensioner as well.

    2010 till partway through 2014 are prone to start burning oil, around 150k miles. Toyota spec'd piston rings that have less outward spring, reducing friction, gaining them a few tenths of a mpg brownie points, and leaving owners with oil-burners.

    Pretty much EVERY 3rd gen will succumb to head gasket failure, somewhere around 150~200k miles, at least those that have not had periodic EGR, cleaning. Being an EGR "fanatic", I advocate a full cleaning every 50k miles; believe it'll prevent this.
     
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  12. Danno5060

    Danno5060 Active Member

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    I'd stay away from the Gen 3. You may actually find the one that's got no real issues, but the chances are that you're finding ones that have real issues, like a car that's been crashed and rebuilt. Any one where someone's put all the work in replacing the timing cover gasket doesn't give me high hopes that this is the one Gen 3 that's going to be worth it.

    I also see cars that have been salvaged with low miles. In that case, not only do you have that the car's been sitting, but also you've gotta wonder what happened. Not everything shows up in the CarFax report. I had a used engine put into my 2009, and that didn't show up anywhere. Even through the local Toyota dealer performed the swap.

    Yeah, I've got a fairly low mileage 2011 (115K). It's not that I didn't drive it for long periods (until the last couple years when I retired). The relatively low mileage is because this city isn't so big. I know the history of my car though, and I also know that it's probably not going to make it much past 200K, even if I keep up on the EGR.

    If you can find a used Gen 4, it's probably going to be a lot better for you in the end. There are federal tax credits to help you get into a Prime, and maybe more in California. Also, if you typically drive less than 25 miles (or maybe a few more), it's like owning an EV. That lower total cost of ownership should also help with what you spend on the car in the end.
     
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  13. Leadfoot J. McCoalroller

    Leadfoot J. McCoalroller Senior Member

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    More of its useful lifetime goes past without anyone receiving benefit from it.

    There's an argument that lack of use makes it go bad even faster- not sure I buy that. But time going past without anyone using it is bad enough. They break down chemically whether you are using them or not.

    I've described it before as like buying an ice cream cone while walking through a park on a hot day: you can enjoy that ice cream right now, or you can let it melt. You can't save it for later. A Prius battery is similar.
     
  14. Mojavemojo

    Mojavemojo New Member

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    I guess we got really lucky then for once. Never did any EGR cleaning on our 2010 (though took it in for a recall issue in early 2020 that, if I recall correctly, was EGR-related; perhaps the dealership did it then). Also plenty of overdue oil changes. And extreme heat in the summers (SoCal desert), yet it was still running strong at 215k miles and getting great MPG. If we get another one, we'll definitely do much better on the maintenance.
     
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  15. Mojavemojo

    Mojavemojo New Member

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    If it was totaled and rebuilt, surely that wouldn't show as a clean title on CarFax? Or be sold by a Toyota dealer. Why would the Toyota dealership spending the money to replace the timing cover gasket make you think this 2010 isn't going to be worth buying? They also replaced the brake pads and spark plugs if I recall correctly.
    .
    How did your 2009 hold up? I read that the second generation was more reliable.
    I drive mostly highway (long commute; hence the high mileage on my 2010), which is probably one reason mine was still going strong at 215k. Still, I had looked into the tax credits for a used plug-in hybrid (both 2017+ Prius and 2014+ Ford C-Max)) but since the beginning of 2024, the tax credit has to be processed by the dealer at the time of sale and I'm having a difficult time finding a dealer who does that (at least for a used car). Makes no sense to me given that it would surely be a selling point. There is an additional tax credit from SoCal Edison but at our income it's worth only $1000 (vs $4000 for people who made about $10k less last year).
     
  16. Mojavemojo

    Mojavemojo New Member

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    I found a 2015 in our price range with 133k miles on it (vs 108k-112k for the 2010s we've been looking at). Also doesn't have all the options of our old 2010 (and the 2010s we've been considering) but as much as I'm not a fan of the cloth seats on the third gens, reliability is far more important. Is it just the oil burning issue that is much less likely to happen with the 2015 or also the head gasket issue?
     
  17. Mojavemojo

    Mojavemojo New Member

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    So seems it's a good sign that the Toyota dealer fixed this before putting the vehicle up for sale since it wasn't a cheap fix and it sounds like they could have gotten away with not fixing it and hoping no one notices?
    Given the prices I'm seeing for replacing the engine, I don't think that would be cost effective. But head gasket replacements are pricey too and may not last long so it's a tough call. One I hope I don't have to make. I was hoping to drive whatever I end up buying to close to 200k miles at least.
    What do you think of a 2020 Elantra with around 130k miles on it? It was a corporate vehicle (one owner/no accident) with great service records: oil change every 5k miles, tire rotation and maintenance inspection every 10k miles. Nothing ever seriously wrong based on service records reported to CarFax. Given how much it was driven, I'm assuming mostly highway miles.
    Also heard good things about the reliability of the Mazda3 and we were also considering the Honda Fit. A hatchback or wagon would work much better for us than a sedan but again, reliability is most important.
     
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  18. Danno5060

    Danno5060 Active Member

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    There are salvage cars sold with a "clean title". When I sold my Gen 2, I got a CarFax report and filled in the missing information for the buyer. I wanted to be totally open about what they were buying.

    Other than when the original engine failed, it held up nicely. The replacement (used engine I found with 35K miles) still didn't use any oil 125K miles later. The leather interior had some creases, but no rips, tears. The clearcoat was just starting to go though, and it had a couple parking lot dings (like the windy day when I found someone didn't put their f%&#ing shopping cart away). I had just replaced the front wheel bearings and struts as well as rear brake shoes and drums.

    My Gen 2 had a lot of features my Gen 3 lacks (leather seats, Bluetooth, backup camera, programmable garage door buttons on the mirror, JBL audio, navigation system, touch screen display...) It's like the Gen 2 was "the car of the future", while the Gen 3 is the "stripped down" version. It does get slightly better gas mileage.

    You may be able to find a Gen 2, but I think most of those you will find are to the point where they are just worn out, either with age, or miles, or both. After 200K miles, even a Gen 2 Prius requires some repairs you wouldn't need with a newer car. When a car starts really breaking down, most people would just unload the car on someone else.
     
  19. Priusmodder56

    Priusmodder56 New Member

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    Hey OP, as long as the charge remains above 30%, the hybrid bats are fine. The discharge from sitting isnt linear, but to go below 30% sitting its usually takes a couple of months without it ever being started.

    Even then, itll still drive. Itll still work. Itll hold less of a charge but for daily operations itll still function. You can easily tell when the hybrid is getting bad by feeling the mpg. Anything below 36mpg id say is a direct result of having bad hybrid batteries that have a hard time holding charge. At least in my experience.
     
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  20. Mojavemojo

    Mojavemojo New Member

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    That's good to hear cause we ended up buying that Prius. We did look at some other used cars in our price range but ultimately nothing measured up to our beloved Prius 4. Plus, always wanted one with the moonroof package, which this one has. So anyway, I got 49.7 MPG on my last commute home (nearly 2 hour drive, mostly highway, running a/c).but yesterday running errands we only got 43 MPG (driving about 50/50 highway/city). I did have it in Power mode at times when passing, but I think the main difference was probably that it was 106 degrees yesterday afternoon so the a/c had to work much harder.