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Hobby Charger settings and batt refurb - high delta V

Discussion in 'Gen 2 Prius Technical Discussion' started by ddangelo, Feb 27, 2022.

  1. ddangelo

    ddangelo New Member

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    Hi All,

    So i read the sticky here and wanted to go over a few things. I've also watched a ton of the youtube videos and read through a lot of forums.

    What I've been doing is turn my delta V all the way up to it's highest level, my charge Amperage is 2A Max, discharge is 1. capacity is 7200 and discharge limit is 6V. timeout is 720 min, which it never reaches.

    I'm also noting my batts are NOT getting hot at all, barely above ambient temp, which is like low 60's. (F)

    by doing this, i'm getting a full 7200 mAh into the cells (i always discharge first). then i get a read of the capacity on the discharge after that 7200. I've seen people go up to 7500, or recommend 7250. I can't do increments of 50, so defaulted to 7200.

    my understanding is that by 'flexing' the cells, all the way up and all the way down, you can get some more capacity out of them, prolong their life. so far I'm seeing very little gains in my cells - all in the 6000 mAh's, maybe got up 100 mAh.

    the ones that started off with a voltage of under 7V, i'm basically ignoring. I did do one of those just to see and noticed that it does hit the high delta V at only 6300/6500 mAh, and the discharge only gets me 5000 mAh. won't even take the full 7200 i've set before tripping the highest delta v settings 20 i think.

    everything I'm reading, and the basis on which the grid chargers work is that you charge the batts with low amperage, and once the batteries reach full charge, they just convert the charge energy to heat.

    am i basically doing this right now on an individual level or am i just 'testing' the cells and identifying? would I need to pump the cells to 7500 mAh with low amperage, then discharge to 6v to rejuvenate?
     
  2. PriusCamper

    PriusCamper Senior Member

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    The amount the "full 7200 Mah" indicated on the charger is only an indicator of how much charge is sent, not how much charge makes it into the battery as there's much loss with heat and other factors. You need lab grade testing equipment to accurately measure how much charge each module is getting.

    Also there's not much heat when you're only discharging to 6v and back up to full charge. But that's just the first round of conditioning... The second round and third round discharge much further. I usually discharge down to 5v, then 3v, then 1v... And that final round is the most dangerous in terms of generating heat and toxic fumes coming out of vent tube. I use tiniest size water balloons over each vent to catch the fumes, which also is a good indicator of one that's venting. Third round of reconditioning is where the most break up of crystallized poorly conducting material is broken up, but I do it in stages because it gets hot if you recharge all at one.

    The more cool you can keep things the better. A thermal camera is a huge help to find hot cells that are going to fail sooner than others. Also the discharger inside the chargers are painfully slow. Consider 12v 50w bulbs to bring the charge level down to the 5v, 3v and 1v first, then use the discharger in the charger at the final voltage desired before recharging.
     
  3. TMR-JWAP

    TMR-JWAP Senior Member

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    If all your modules are testing in the 6000's, then there's really no need to do anything further.

    Now, if you want to experiment, try using the 2 amp charge rate with an 8200 cut off point. This will get you into the heat generation area at the top of the charge. Make sure you have good airflow cooling the modules. Keep in mind you're likely only getting an 80-85% charge efficiency. If you think of it as just units of energy being pushed into a module's chemicals and units of energy available for discharge from the chemicals, a 7200 unit charge at 85% efficiency is 6120 actually stored in the chemicals for discharge. The modules "new" rating is 6500, but when new they test >7000 (using 2 amps charge and 1.5 amp discharge with an 8200 cutoff). I have many dozens of Gen 2 modules that test 6500+ using the exact same methodology.

    Also keep in mind that if your charger is programmed to discharge to 6 volts, you are likely at 6.2-6.3 volts at the module terminals. You may want to drop that setting to 5.8 volts. This will depend somewhat on the wire gauge you're using for the cables. Hopefully you're using 16ga or better. Smaller than that may cause additional voltage drop issues.
     
    #3 TMR-JWAP, Feb 27, 2022
    Last edited: Feb 27, 2022
  4. ddangelo

    ddangelo New Member

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    great stuff. I am using 16 gauge wiring. did notice it was only going down to 6.2/6.3. Makes sense.

    Always thought that going all the way down to lower than 6V would be detrimental to the battery?

    I got the full battery and 6 extra cells for $100, so I'm ok with buying a couple new packs to make sure they're all above 6000.

    maybe for some of my lesser batts i'll try the 8200 technique and see what shakes out.

    thanks!