1. Attachments are working again! Check out this thread for more details and to report any other bugs.

Help With HV Traction Battery - Voltage(s)

Discussion in 'Gen 1 Prius Plug-in 2012-2015' started by chris14020, Mar 21, 2018.

  1. chris14020

    chris14020 Junior Member

    Joined:
    Sep 8, 2017
    29
    26
    0
    Location:
    Buffalo
    Vehicle:
    2012 Prius Plug-in
    Model:
    N/A
    Hello. I am getting the four DTC's P1A64, P1A67, P1A61, P31AB. The full story is this:
    -The ICE was replaced
    -The vehicle will not start (tried to, but only sounded like a drill if you pulled the trigger only slightly)
    -The vehicle was driven with a dead ICE prior to replacement, so the battery was already very low
    -The vehicle does not seem to be willing to charge with the EV cable even
    -The vehicle threw two of the aforementioned codes
    -The cells were all around 3.3, so I used a vehicle charger in groups of 4 to bring them to between 3.55 and 3.62 volts
    -The vehicle now throws all four of the codes mentioned pertaining to low voltage
    -The 150A fuse is good
    -The voltage coming off of the two ends of the cells (orange cables) is about 203v
    -The voltage at the terminal coming off of the battery (two large white/black cables) is 0v

    Is there any way to proceed from here? Are those two terminals supposed to be 0v? Where do I check the output to the vehicle? Is there anything else to check that could be causing these codes? One last thing, should the EV charger still charge the battery despite these codes? I don't expect so, but am curious. Thank you for your help!
     
  2. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

    Joined:
    May 11, 2005
    110,164
    50,060
    0
    Location:
    boston
    Vehicle:
    2012 Prius Plug-in
    Model:
    Plug-in Base
    how many miles on her?
     
  3. chris14020

    chris14020 Junior Member

    Joined:
    Sep 8, 2017
    29
    26
    0
    Location:
    Buffalo
    Vehicle:
    2012 Prius Plug-in
    Model:
    N/A
    Time to cry, 95k. They denied any sort of warranty claim to the battery or hybrid system because the ICE was not replaced by Toyota.
     
  4. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

    Joined:
    May 11, 2005
    110,164
    50,060
    0
    Location:
    boston
    Vehicle:
    2012 Prius Plug-in
    Model:
    Plug-in Base
    ouch. what happened to the ice? have you owned since new?
     
  5. chris14020

    chris14020 Junior Member

    Joined:
    Sep 8, 2017
    29
    26
    0
    Location:
    Buffalo
    Vehicle:
    2012 Prius Plug-in
    Model:
    N/A
    It's actually not my car -- a family member purchased it from a shady "pre-owned" car lot. They 'rebuilt' the motor allegedly. Rod right through the block. It has been owned for about 5k miles.
     
  6. chris14020

    chris14020 Junior Member

    Joined:
    Sep 8, 2017
    29
    26
    0
    Location:
    Buffalo
    Vehicle:
    2012 Prius Plug-in
    Model:
    N/A
    At any rate, I'm doing my damnedest to get this going for them, but I'm not a Toyota tech or anything. Shade-tree mechanic with a background in electronics repair, but not much to do when it comes to such a complex hybrid system.
     
  7. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

    Joined:
    May 11, 2005
    110,164
    50,060
    0
    Location:
    boston
    Vehicle:
    2012 Prius Plug-in
    Model:
    Plug-in Base
    there haven't been any plug in batteries done here, that i can recall. you might want to pick up tech stream diagnostic software and get the service manual on line.

    the rod through the block is a common theme in gen 3 engines around 100k. 2012 has not been as common as 2010 and 2011 though.
     
  8. chris14020

    chris14020 Junior Member

    Joined:
    Sep 8, 2017
    29
    26
    0
    Location:
    Buffalo
    Vehicle:
    2012 Prius Plug-in
    Model:
    N/A
    Damn. Wondering if anyone has any knowledge on where to test the voltage from the battery. I have one torn apart, do you guys want pictures? At least I can try to be useful to someone else while being lost, heh.
     
    bisco likes this.
  9. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

    Joined:
    May 11, 2005
    110,164
    50,060
    0
    Location:
    boston
    Vehicle:
    2012 Prius Plug-in
    Model:
    Plug-in Base
    might as well post pics, no harm, no foul.
     
    Raytheeagle likes this.
  10. 4est

    4est Active Member

    Joined:
    Mar 4, 2017
    207
    121
    0
    Location:
    Romania
    Vehicle:
    2013 Prius Plug-in
    Model:
    Excel
    What do the codes mean?
    It might shed some light.

    Do you have [an illegal software not condoned on Priuschat]?
     
    #10 4est, Mar 22, 2018
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 23, 2018
  11. chris14020

    chris14020 Junior Member

    Joined:
    Sep 8, 2017
    29
    26
    0
    Location:
    Buffalo
    Vehicle:
    2012 Prius Plug-in
    Model:
    N/A
    The codes mean "Hybrid Battery Cell Low Voltage Stack (A-D)". Meaning, I wonder if the car is not seeing the battery at all, or if if is just seeing all four as very low.

    I do not have Techstream, but I just ordered the bootleg version two-day so it should be here tomorrow. We'll see how that goes.
     
  12. jerrymildred

    jerrymildred Senior Member

    Joined:
    Oct 28, 2016
    11,518
    14,128
    0
    Location:
    Tampa, FL
    Vehicle:
    2017 Prius
    Model:
    Two
    I found this image online that explains the codes.
    126770_WhatsApp_Image_2017-06-05_at_11.15.31.jpg
    Not a good situation with a lithium battery since you can't just use a Hybrid Automotive grid charger.

    Perhaps @jeff652, @ericbecky, or @Texas Hybrid Batteries might have an idea.
     
    Andyprius1 likes this.
  13. chris14020

    chris14020 Junior Member

    Joined:
    Sep 8, 2017
    29
    26
    0
    Location:
    Buffalo
    Vehicle:
    2012 Prius Plug-in
    Model:
    N/A
    Well, I'm waiting for my TechStream to stream its' arse here, but is there anyone out there with a Plug-In model that is willing to test the voltage in the front-passenger side of the battery (between the seats) of the thick black and white cables, connecting to the battery (under a few bolt shield, with the orange clip on it)? I am interested if there is supposed to be voltage here, I really feel like these are probably the battery's output terminals, but they have nothing on them. The only thing I can think of is that perhaps they are switched power somehow, such as a relay?

    Anyhow, if someone could confirm that I'd greatly appreciate it. Thanks!
     
  14. 4est

    4est Active Member

    Joined:
    Mar 4, 2017
    207
    121
    0
    Location:
    Romania
    Vehicle:
    2013 Prius Plug-in
    Model:
    Excel
    I could, but there should be no voltage there. I'd the battery ecu does not engage the relays, there is no voltage there.

    And the relays will not engage with the codes present

    Battery output first goes to the relays
     
    Tim Jones likes this.
  15. 4est

    4est Active Member

    Joined:
    Mar 4, 2017
    207
    121
    0
    Location:
    Romania
    Vehicle:
    2013 Prius Plug-in
    Model:
    Excel
    There is a prime battery teardown on YouTube. The guy on a wheelchair films it.

    The pip battery should be very similar!
     
  16. Dxta

    Dxta Senior Member

    Joined:
    Nov 7, 2016
    1,932
    767
    0
    Location:
    Lagos
    Vehicle:
    2008 Prius
    Model:
    II
    Have you tried testing for voltage presence at the contactor's, with or without the service plug connected? You should get some pretty voltage there.

    What about trying from the inverter area where you have the HV battery output, when you open up the inverter cover?

    IMG_20171030_123129.jpg IMG_20180212_095019.jpg

    Fig1: Middle Hihy pack, showing the contractors (that big relay thingy)
    Fig2: Shows the contactor for a Camry hybrid.


    Your 3rd generation should have contactor's marked + and - on it.

    Connect the service plug, and use your meter to insert the probes in the openings. You should get voltage there.


    Dxta
     
  17. Dxta

    Dxta Senior Member

    Joined:
    Nov 7, 2016
    1,932
    767
    0
    Location:
    Lagos
    Vehicle:
    2008 Prius
    Model:
    II
    Can you try discharging the modules to some reasonable voltage, and then recharge them back?

    Be mindful of the current you use though in your discharge/charge cycles.
     
  18. chris14020

    chris14020 Junior Member

    Joined:
    Sep 8, 2017
    29
    26
    0
    Location:
    Buffalo
    Vehicle:
    2012 Prius Plug-in
    Model:
    N/A
    Wow, such an influx of suggestions and helpful advice, thank you!
    -I was wondering that, if there were relays that control the voltage out. Thank you for your confirmation of that.
    -There is indeed proper voltage at the + and - onto the black 'plate' that seems to go to the relays and/or terminals out
    -That makes sense, the ECU controlling voltage out.
    -Is it necessary to discharge them? Or should I try to bring the voltages closer to 3.7v?
    -If the latter is true, can I simply put 3 in series (11.1v) and use car batteries at 12.5v to charge them to 3.7?

    I suppose at this point, I'm wondering if the codes are indeed correct or if I did something wrong.
    How far 'apart' can cells be voltage wise before the ECU wigs out?

    I did note that a Modis used to read the codes and info (I only had general info since I don't have the proper personality key for this new a Toyota) said "Hybrid Battery Life: 24%". I'm not sure if that's the hybrid battery itself overall (expected life span) or actually the read charge state (e.g. 24% charged).

    I have a Techstream MVCI adapter coming soon (Tuesday-Wednesday is my guess), and am trying to find a way to get a copy of the 13.x Techstream software. I note that most places it is available from 'alternative sources' seem to want an activation key, only obtainable from paid membership forum users. So I'm looking for a way around that, in the meantime.
     
  19. Dxta

    Dxta Senior Member

    Joined:
    Nov 7, 2016
    1,932
    767
    0
    Location:
    Lagos
    Vehicle:
    2008 Prius
    Model:
    II
    In some instances, you could get the cloned versions of tech stream. They do work too.

    As regards using the car battery to charge the batteries in series, I guess you can do that. But you got to be mindful of the capacity you're using to charge em.

    I don't know if the lithium ion modules would tolerate the charging amperage you're using to charge with the car batteries. My bet is that ybyouve got those codes is cause the batteries are low. So, charge them up to say, 3.7-4.0V, then allow it to rest for sometime. Be careful though, when working on lithium ion modules, because they hate heat. You may have a fan close by to blow across for cooling.

    I think you can discharge the modules to like 3.0V, before recharging them. This would help exercise the batteries, since its being staying that long when you got the car.


    PS: When you get the tech stream, try to erase the codes, and see if it comes back.

    Have you checked the small white connector underneath the service plug, to see if its slotted in?


    Send us some pictures of your battery setup let's have a look. IMG-20180130-WA0002.jpg IMG-20180130-WA0005.jpg

    Can you post pictures of something like shown above(those are for a Prius I did work on some years back)?
     
  20. 4est

    4est Active Member

    Joined:
    Mar 4, 2017
    207
    121
    0
    Location:
    Romania
    Vehicle:
    2013 Prius Plug-in
    Model:
    Excel
    Keep in mind he has a plug-in so the battery pack is very different
     
    jerrymildred likes this.