HELP! Just Bought a 2005 and having a MAJOR problem

Neutral is the safety position the computer puts the car into if it gets unexpected commands. Help us with a few more details:
1) How do you know it is in neutral? (i.e. Does the dash indicator go to N when you put it in either D or R?)
2) When you step on the accelerator, does the indicator shift by itself or is it already in D or R?
3) Have you tried to revert back to the beeping on to see if the car returned to normal?

Answering this will help and everyone wants you to be both safe and not worried.

 

Are you briefly landing the shifter in the desired position and then
letting go entirely, allowing it to spring back to that "rest"
position on the right? If you dawdle in the left-hand "null"
position where N is for more than a half-second, it will go to
Neutral. Now, if the car is going to N by itself some time after
you've successfully shifted and are driving, that's a problem, but
hopefully just a loose wire from the shifter assembly to the ECU.
.
Indiana, eh? How close to Scottsburg [southern part] are you?
.
_H*

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(FL_Prius_Driver @ Jul 15 2007, 07:32 PM) [snapback]479340[/snapback]</div>

Thanks for the responses...Here are my best answers

1. I know (ok, think) it is in Neutral because of the indicator going to "N" and also losing all power with the accelerator. I go to back out of the driveway and have to physically hold the shifter up (in reverse) to get to the end of the drive where I can put it into drive and have the same thing happen. I am not exaggerating the shifts, just doing what I have been for the past month.

2. When I step on the accelerator, it will stay in the gear as long as I am holding the knob in position it will kick into gear and I can release the knob. It will not go into neutral again until I put it in Park and either try to go into D or R again.

3. We did try to put the beep back on again, then we turned it off again, and now it is back on.

We bought the car used from a Toyota dealer, but they do not go through the certification process to make their cars "Toyota Certified Used cars," but I did take it to a more trusted Toyota dealer and had them check everything out before we bought it. We passed on the 1800.00 extended warranty and now I am bummed. I love this car and it's only been a month!

I am going to call the other dealer (not where we bought it) and try to get it in tomorrow. I hope it is ok to drive it to the dealer. I am having no other issues after it gets in gear.



I would be glad to try anything else that you guys have in mind, thanks again.

-Jen in IN

Oh and I am in Northern, IN (South Bend area). Is Scottsburgh close to Evansville?

 

That's just bizarre. I hope it gets resolved soon.
.
The reason I mentioned Scottsburg is Steve at Autobeyours is a Prius
tech and could probably help dope out what's up. But it sounds a
little far for you to go, especially if the assembled folks here can
remotely help diagnose your problem! Maybe one of the Chicago-area
techie folks would be into making a road trip...
.
_H*

 

did the reverse beep disable process work right the first time? i don't know what kinds of other things can be changed from that easter egg.

wonder if it's not the shifter mechanism? i'll ask DH what happens when that breaks, he's replaced at least one of them before.

we're only somewhat available lately, and it's only going to get worse over the next couple weeks. we'll try to keep up.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(galaxee @ Jul 15 2007, 10:42 PM) [snapback]479418[/snapback]</div>

Ok, so I took it in today and got a quote for 798.00. The entire shifter assembly unit needs replaced (Toyota OEM 3356047022) and then when they did the diagnostic tests, they found that the brakelight switch needs replaced as well (OEM 8434047020). I am a little weary about paying what they want for the parts (360 for the shift assem and 60 for the brake switch). I might try to find them online and then just pay the 70/hr in labor to have them installed at the dealer. Any ideas as to why the shifter assembly would need replaced? The dealer said that they have never replaced one yet, so did I do something wrong in the month I have owned it?

I am so sad....I love this car, but it is already needing repairs. I guess is a lesson, don't buy USED!

Any further insight you guys could give as to why these went out at 44,000 miles would be appreciated...Thanks for all of your help thus far!


Sincerely,

Sad (and broke!) Jen in IN

Oh and BTW, JenVanVooren and JenandScottieV are both me, I didn't know we had 2 names, but we do! Thanks.

 

Seriously -- I'll be passing through northern Indiana in TWO DAYS
on my way to Hybridfest, and then again on the way out [although I'm
heading southward toward said Scottsburg on the flip side]. On the
westward leg I'm going right THROUGH South Bend. PM me if you want
an extra set of eyeballs and diagnostic-fu on this puppy, with the
caveat that I do have to make it north of Chicago by Wednesday night
or Thurs. morningish.
.
The shift control is a weird system of sense coils, and has TEN wires
going into the hybrid ECU. If the set that registers the leftward
movement is stuck or not picking up what it should, that could cause
it to always be electronically asserted "leftward" which is what
makes me think flakey connectors right off, and that's easy to at
least check for. The shift is a non-contact device, and really
shouldn't be breaking unless you've got a total fluke.
.
_H*

 

yep, then i'll definitely ask hubby what symptoms caused the replacement of the shifter assy. we're going to be out late working on a project tonight but if i have a moment i will reply back with his answer.

actually, i bet you could replace it yourself if you're technically inclined. it's totally self-enclosed, it's just a box really. he brought it home to show me.

and on the frequency, yeah that's a rare one. the "local toyota dealer" listed in my sig is one of the busiest prius shops in the country so DH gets a pretty basic idea of what's common and what isn't.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(JenVanVooren @ Jul 16 2007, 03:35 PM) [snapback]479750[/snapback]</div>

You may not be broke yet. Your problem is real and has gotten the attention of the best here. Good advice to follow. Hate for you to spend money if just the shifter connector needed cleaning. That would be an easy think to step you through if you think you are up for it.

 

ok, this is a problem that DH has actually seen 2 or 3 times now in the past couple years. but typically the shifter gets kinda noisy or "crunchy" as he referred to it in addition to the shift position changing.

that said, the r&r of this thing is stupid simple, you could totally do it yourself if you got the part. we can guide you through it.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(galaxee @ Jul 16 2007, 09:42 PM) [snapback]480004[/snapback]</div>

First and foremost thanks to all for the help! I also feel much better knowing that this isn't a complete fluke....that DH has seen a few before. My hubby and I both have never noticed anyhting crunchy or different about the shifter though, that was the weird part. I ordered the entire shifter assembly unit today for 248.00 and also ordered the brake light switch for 42.00 and should have both by Thurs/Fri at the latest. So come the weekend, we might need some "Prius for Dummies" insight from everyone! My husband can fix anything in the house, build whatever, and can even do the basics on a car, but he is a little nervous about getting in over his head with the Prius.

If it isn't too much to ask, we would really appreciate getting walked through this. Is the brake switch something that is fairly easy as well? The service person told us that it wasn't reading right on the computer end, but my brakes were functioning fine, just giving a bad reading on the diagnostic report. They only quoted me an hour of labor for that, so we have no problem taking it in if it is more complicated.

Thanks again for all of the insight and help! You have all made this so much easier already.

Have a great rest of your week! I will post again when the parts arrive.

Take care,

Jen

 

Change the brake light switch first and then try it to see if it shifts properly if it does I wouldn't bother putting in the shifter unit as the brake light switch is the over ride for all shift functions and it's possible that is the problem.
Edit: the brake light switch was the subject of a recall on early Prius 2004 and I believe early 2005 production vehicles.

 

What is the degree of difficulty for r/r of the brake switch? Should I take it in to the dealer for that? Any ideas why that would go out or fault? Thanks.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Frank Hudon @ Jul 17 2007, 11:50 AM) [snapback]480248[/snapback]</div>

Excellent, excellent point and maybe worth two sentences from a bystander.

It's unlikely that two dependable electrical parts failed simultaneously.

Failure of the brake sensor alone might explain the symptoms. The car has to think your foot is on the brake before it'll let you shift out of N. So it won't readily go into D from a standstill. But will stay in D once you're rolling in D, because ... at that point the software stops checking? Anyway, if the shifter were faulty it ought to continue to pop out of D?

FWIW I had a Chevy once where I had to override the clutch interlock with a paperclip to get the car to run at all. Sounds like a 21st century version of the same problem. The car doesn't think you've depressed the brake pedal.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(JenVanVooren @ Jul 17 2007, 12:01 PM) [snapback]480253[/snapback]</div>

Aside from the recall mentioned above, it gets a lot of wear and tear --- gets toggled every time you put the brakes on. The equivalent switch for the clutch pedal broke on my last car (a Ford). Literally broke the plunger off the switch.

I have a vague recollection there are two separate switches -- one simple on-off, one a pedal position sensor. It's the on-off one that's broken here? I think it has to be otherwise you wouldn't get normal braking.

Here's a relevant thread on the stop light switch.

http://priuschat.com/index.php?showtopic=33020&hl=brake

I assume you're replacing the "stop light switch" assembly? If so, that should be pretty easy. As mentioned in the thread. (Well, no, actually, the pictures are clear but the text says there's minimal clearance to do anything.) If, by contrast, this is the pedal position sensor, that's a different case.

Also, based on that and other threads here, it looks like it's the stop light switch that shuts off cruise control when you tap the brakes. So, you might want to avoid cruise control until you get this fixed.

 

I know this may seem like a really dumb and simple idea. But have you tried removing the power from the aux battery, and then reconnecting it. Since from what you said that happened arround the same time you disabled the reverse beep. Doing so should reset the operating software to factory defaults, thus erasing any changes that have been made.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(JenVanVooren @ Jul 17 2007, 09:01 AM) [snapback]480253[/snapback]</div>

the origional cause of the brake light switch failure was VOC's coming from the foam in the seats. Yes I know it's hard to believe but that is what Toyota found. They changed the contact material in the switch to eliminate the problem. Wife's 2k4 got caught in this recall. No problem but they changed the switch. If you go to Toyota and ask they can check your serial number against the recall list and see if it was one of the problem ones. As for the difficulty of changing the switch as a mechanic ( retired ) I know if some shop mechanic can change, it so can I.

 

if the brake light switch being flat out bad that was causing it, shouldn't we expect the car to not start at all? or for the car to beep at you when you try to shift and not complete the shift? i have never tried to shift without pressing the brake pedal but the car does beep when it doesn't like what you tell it to do.

i mean, if the car goes into drive okay and just flops back, it's not like hitting the brake or taking your foot off it kicks you into neutral in normal driving.

but heck. put the brake switch in first. someone's already done that with picture to accompany it.