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Grouped lots of Maintenance

Discussion in 'Gen 3 Prius Care, Maintenance & Troubleshooting' started by clintonsimmons, Nov 9, 2024 at 10:01 PM.

  1. clintonsimmons

    clintonsimmons New Member

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    Hello!

    Bottom line - 120k on 2014 on Prius. What's the ideal set of maintenance for me to do while I've got things mostly pulled apart?

    Hello!, I'm new here but been lurking a while. I understand that our lovely little gen 3's develop issues at 120-150k.

    I'm gonna do these myself, and while I have things pulled apart, I wanted to see what other things to add to the list.

    1. Rotors/pads
    2. Strut/spring combo
    3. Sway bar ends (not the full sway bar right?)
    4. Plugs (I think coils are ok)
    5. Service battery cooling fan.

    But I am losing oil, maybe a leak, maybe burning/consuming.
    So do I add in to my list
    - EGR clean out
    - Oil sensor clean/adjust/replace
    - Head gasket (and new timing chain)
    - new water pump

    Thoughts on doing these?
    what to add or remove?
    What's gonna blow up at 180k anyhow??
     
    bisco likes this.
  2. Eddie25

    Eddie25 Active Member

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    Why is it apart?

    1-4 are mostly "as needed". Granted, your sway bar links are probably bad (OEM are rather trash), but your suspension, brakes, and spark plugs are probably good for a while. You do need to check that your brake caliper slide pins are still slidey, and that will allow you to get a better view of the pads and rotors.

    Head gasket seems really pre-mature, I'm not against doing it as maintenance, but I'd at least push to 150k at the min, maybe even shoot for 180-200k.

    I'd just add transmission fluid replacement, inverter coolant replacement (I'm assuming you're replace engine coolant), and brake fluid replacement.

    What oil sensor?
     
    Brian1954 likes this.
  3. Mendel Leisk

    Mendel Leisk EGR Fanatic

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    "Sometime" through model year 2014 Toyota revised the piston rings, to ones with more outward spring, and subsequent engines have proven less prone to oil consumption. They lost a few tenths of a mpg rating in the process, which I guess was the purpose of the original rings. See attached.

    My take on your intitial post: that's an ambitious list. I would slow down, prioritize. Do you NEED rotors, sight-unseen? Is the suspension giving you any problems? How long have you had it, and do you know the service history, like when the plugs were last replaced? They are due, by miles.
    Yup. ASAP. See my signature, top two links. (on a phone turn it landscape to see signatures)

    Addendum: also attached, a spreadsheet summary of the maintenance schedule in the Toyota USA Warranty and Maintenance Booklet, plus an extrapolated version, past 120k miles..
     
    #3 Mendel Leisk, Nov 10, 2024 at 11:45 AM
    Last edited: Nov 10, 2024 at 1:21 PM
  4. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    1) follow the maintenance schedule that came with the car
    2) prioritize the egr circuit
    3) change the tranny fluid when you have time and it's up on supports
    4) clean and inspect everything else and change what looks or performs badly
    5) do an early engine coolant changed if the schedule doesn't call for it yet
    6) all the best!
     
  5. clintonsimmons

    clintonsimmons New Member

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    hey everyone! thanks.
    I've stolen my milage tracker from you on this site in the past, so yes its time for plugs and i've done the coolant in both systems twice already before 120k miles. I'll check transmission, i think i did a drain and fill earlier this year. Struts/sway links are needed, the car is walking all over the road, and i'll get a good look at the rotors when i take on the strut job. no its not apart yet, I was asking what else to do once I've got the wipers off and I'm diggin around.

    Thanks so much for the EGR catch.
    Today I'm doing the EGR block off test with a putty knife to see if it's the EGR causing the death rattle. Hopefully yes, and not a head gasket.
    Then I'll do the exhaust gas in coolant tester as well. before taking on the ambitious list, I want to determine if it's a head gasket leak. from reading, it's most likely not.

    the head gasket exhaust tool is available for rental at the parts store, so i'll update yall maybe later today!

    Thanks again.
     
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  6. Mendel Leisk

    Mendel Leisk EGR Fanatic

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    First time you’ve mention that. When in particular do you get “death rattle”?

    That tests for carbon monoxide in coolant, which is not what happens, at least not in the early stages (of head gasket failure). Typical first stage is coolant leaking into cylinders, one and/or two, at the common wall, on the exhaust side.
     
  7. clintonsimmons

    clintonsimmons New Member

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    Mendel, thanks for all your input on the site.

    So, yes the death rattle wasn't something I was aware of at first, but realized that I've had it for maybe 6 months on cold start ups.
    I'm at 112k, so maybe 108k when I first heard it.

    1. Blue liquid coolant checker for CO came out negative.
    2. I don't wanna do a compression test myself, but I could borescope to look for clean shiny heads.
    - The issue here isn't symptoms, it's my fear after reading about the death rattle. no smoke, no coolant loss, so likely no issue. So I'll rent and use a borescope it when I have the plugs out to replace anyhow.
    3. The putty knife EGR test worked well. no rattle on start up after about 5 days no driving, and wet/humid cooler weather here.
    4. also, no codes! YAY

    So I'm gonna review your documents and links, and push my tracker out beyond 120k. The revisit the plan. Again, I'm trying to do everything that makes sense and is accessible while I've got things pulled apart, specifically, up on jack stands, front wheels off, wipers removed.

    rotors/pads
    battery cooling fan in the rear.
    struts/springs replace front
    strut mounts replace
    plugs/coils
    intake manifold + gaskets
    PCV valve replacement
    egr cooler
    egr valve + gaskets

    catch can maybe?
     
    Mendel Leisk likes this.
  8. Eddie25

    Eddie25 Active Member

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    I would diagnose the rattle issue before doing anything honestly. Do you mean to say that you regularly get cold start rattles for the last 6 months but didn't notice? I could be wrong, but I don't think the EGR system would cause that in-and-of itself, instead people think it causes the head gasket to go, which in turn causes the cold start rattle.
     
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  9. Mendel Leisk

    Mendel Leisk EGR Fanatic

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    Yeah, death rattle is vague, mysterious. Engine trying to compress coolant with mixed success, stressing the pistons, crankshaft and damper (between engine and transaxle), more succinct.
     
  10. clintonsimmons

    clintonsimmons New Member

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    so to be clear, are we saying that the death rattle is a head gasket leak, separate and distinct from the EGR clog/restriction? What are the symptoms of the EGR clog, if not the death rattle?
     
  11. ASRDogman

    ASRDogman Senior Member

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    Pads AND rotors? Are you hard on the brakes?
    Unless the rotors are scored and/or have a lip, pads would be find.
    Just make sure you clean the guide pins and regrease. Don't forget the rears!
    They will still quicker because they are used less.

    You don't need coils, unless they are bad. Mine are 357,8xx miles on.....
    Plugs, yes....

    EGR system, YES! Cooler and intake manifold are most important.

    If the engine is hot, and the outside temp is cold, you will get condinsation in the intake
    manifold, which will cause some knocking on a cold morning.

    Head gasket failure? "Maybe", it's kinda early at 120,000 miles unless you do a lot of city
    driving. A bore scope in #'s 1 and 2 with a coolant pressure tester will show any coolant
    leaking from a damage gasket....


     
  12. Mendel Leisk

    Mendel Leisk EGR Fanatic

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    Yes to first question. As to second: symptoms of EGR clog are any third Gen with over 100k miles.
     
  13. Brian1954

    Brian1954 Senior Member

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    A clogged EGR will throw a P0401 trouble code.
     
  14. douglasjre

    douglasjre Senior Member

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    Holy crap. You're not doing all that in one sitting are you?
     
  15. rjparker

    rjparker Tu Humilde Sirviente

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    A clogged egr is the same as your putty knife test, no exhaust gas flow to the intake causing P0401.

    A sticking open egr valve that is flowing exhaust at idle or low rpm’s can cause engine roughness and usually P0401 as well. The putty knife egr block test is to rule out this scenario.

    Yes the theory is a clogged egr cooler or egr intake passages will cause a head gasket fail. Toyota Europe put out a hg fail tsb blaming the water pump logic and excessive idle, stop and go or heavy loading.

    Toyota engineers tried new pistons, rings, intake manifolds and a revised egr valve. Some of it was for roughness and stumbling.

    There is a big difference between roughness and a hg severe rattle that sounds like a thrown rod but clears in seconds and does not repeat for days or weeks in early stages.

    This is a hg severe rattle and results if ignored;
    Shudder video


    In person it is “oh sh… my engine has blown” bad

    Toyota Europe HG Recommendation
    IMG_6709.jpeg
     
    #15 rjparker, Nov 12, 2024 at 1:12 AM
    Last edited: Nov 12, 2024 at 11:12 AM
  16. Mendel Leisk

    Mendel Leisk EGR Fanatic

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    Just editorial: the head gasket is not “rattling”. It’s leaking coolant. The rattle is due to the pistons, crankshaft and damper (between crankshaft and transaxle) struggling in vain to compress that coolant.
     
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  17. clintonsimmons

    clintonsimmons New Member

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    Thanks everyone.

    So. other than the rattle/compression shaking transaxle, how do I diagnose the head gasket problem?
    I did the leak test thru the coolant reservoir which was negative.
    Am I looking at a compression test now, and maybe a borescope to look for shiny clean pistons?

    I think I would need a shop to do the coolant pressurized step while the borescope is in. Or is that a DIY tool I can find?
     
  18. ASRDogman

    ASRDogman Senior Member

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    Didn't you ask this in another thread???
    Pressure test with a bore scope. You can usually rent one from a parts store.
    You pay for it then they return you money when you return the tool.
     
  19. Mendel Leisk

    Mendel Leisk EGR Fanatic

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    I cobbled this, an automotive fluid transfer syringe, with a couple of check valves. The arrows indicate the flow directions. As set up now it’ll apply-and-hold vacuum. If the valves are reversed, it’ll apply-and-hold pressure.

    The transfer syringe, T-junction, surgical tubing and check valves I got on Amazon:

    IMG_5996.jpeg
     
  20. douglasjre

    douglasjre Senior Member

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    1 cO test fluid at overflow tank w bulb and beaker
    2 pressurize system w pressure kit and plugs remove, then crank
    3 pressurize and use horoscope
    4 examine antifreeze level
    5 sniff exhaust
    6 read OBD codes
    7 move coil and plug and clear codes, see if code follows
    8 look for leaks
    9 gen 4, canister post car ruptures
    10 look at color of plus
    11 boroscope and see if pistons are washed down
    12 get YouTube videos and buy many tools
    13 look downsp plug wells, look for oil from well seal leaks
    14 examine coils for electric leakage damage between plastic and boot
    15 send car to qualified shop