Goodbye gasoline

I truly hope this works out. I've been waiting for this for a very long time. In addition to the obvious impact on hybrid technology, I have other personal reasons to hope. We have a cruising sailboat that uses a large lead-acid battery for house power. Power boats have a pretty easy time charging batteries since their engines run for long periods of time. Sailboats, on the other hand, generally run their engines for short periods while entering or leaving harbor, or just for recharging batteries. While even a small internal combustion engine can generate large amounts of electricity, the ability of a battery to use the energy is limited. As the surface layer of a battery charges, it presents an increasing barrier to recharging the inside areas of the plates. This means that the ability of a battery to accept charge drops off asymptotically with time, so you end up putting in a smaller and smaller trickle of electricity to finish off the charging process. Engines are not very efficient when idling, not to mention loud and smelly, so you hardly ever end up with a full charge.

That all changes with a super-cap: you just dump current in as fast as you can make it, subject to limits of heating. It's better for the engine, my ears, and the environment.

Tom

 

This is very good news, and by reading the link it looks really good. The link mentions EVs, but my first thought is how this application may relate to solar collectors for home use. Exciting news, indeed.

 

This is exciting and relevant news as the recently revealed Toyota FT-HS concept car (previewing new Toyota sports coupe) is powered by the next generation Toyota hybrid system which incorporates ultracapacitors and Lithium polymer batteries to provide sub 4 second to 60 acceleration and impressive fuel economy. Now if they would just have the guts to yank the nasty ICE motor and create a truly clean supercar.

 

Don't sell yer Prius just yet. EEStor have announced features of their anticipated manufacturing process and starting materials. They have not built functioning capacitors with anything like those final specs. Hasten the day!

 

wow this is cool. the power management cost will probably bring the cost up quite a bit, probably close to Li-Ion levels anyway, but this solution virtually eliminates talk of reduced charges in severe weather and replacement costs. with caps that large, the vehicle weight obstacle would not be as much of an issue either. full size trucks could easily handle two large caps. the weight exchange when you consider that an engine and tranny would not be needed would be nearly a straight trade. even with a smaller engine for occasional or emergency power would still be light in comparsion

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(MarinJohn @ Jan 18 2007, 10:27 AM) [snapback]377153[/snapback]</div>

I remain mildly skeptical on this. However, I also remain hopeful because this is truly a clean technology for energy storage.

Solar electric storage would be one aspect of an overall home energy storage system. Using an ultra cap like this in a home energy system would likely simplify things because it would eliminate the need for having specialized battery containment housings that are currently required by code, not to mention bringing down overall cost and virtually eliminating the need to replace batteries. Taking 800 kWh for the monthly amount of electricity consumed by a household, one 52 kWh unit would be enough for two days of backup electricity.

If it works out, this will almost certainly become huge. My guess is that no batteries would be needed for PHEVs, but, since the charging rate is potentially very high, I could also see fueling stations installing very high capacity electric lines and being able to "fill up" in, perhaps, the same time that it currently takes to fill up with gasoline - not that I would necessarily want to stand by something like that when it is in operation.


My fingers are crossed!!!

All the best,
Matthew

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(MarinJohn @ Jan 18 2007, 09:27 AM) [snapback]377153[/snapback]</div>

I like this news a lot, but I don't think it helps the solar house all that much. They don't give any specs on the discharge rate, but capacitors don't tend to hold their charge for a long time. That's one of the reasons some hybrid/EV researchers are looking at a combined ultra-cap/battery system. Ultra-caps would be great for short-term energy bursts and recoveries, like braking and acceleration, but batteries are better for long-term storage and steady driving. In fact, you might need a battery at the house to dump the electricity into when you get home, then use it to recharge the car the next morning?

 

Wasn't that the capacitor on the Back to the Future Delorean ? Just wondering ...

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Wiyosaya @ Jan 18 2007, 12:47 PM) [snapback]377269[/snapback]</div>

Take this a step further. For areas that offer residential time/metered electrical usage, imagine the savings storing the low cost electricity during the off peak periods.

Rick
#4 2006

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(subarutoo @ Jan 19 2007, 03:40 PM) [snapback]377919[/snapback]</div>

That was a flux capacitor.

Tom

 

In the context of the Prius, even a much smaller ultracapacitor could make a great improvement, supplying the difference between what the motor can use and what the battery can deliver. Presumably it would also be much more energy-efficient than the NIMH battery, particularly for storing the regenerative braking energy. BTW, does anyone have an educated guess as to what percentage of the kinetic energy is lost from the moment you hit the brake until the recovered energy is put back into the wheels? I have a feeling that the losses/limitations of the battery account for more than half. We'll probably never see the efficiency of a rubber band slingshot, but cutting the stop+start loss in half would make a huge difference. I wonder if Toyota is looking into using ultracapacitors for this purpose. I'd love to see them bring out an upgrade to our existing Prius'es that will silence the criticism of the Prius'es mileage.

 

Hi Paul,

Atilla ( The new 2004 Toyota Prius : EV efficiency measurements ) did regeneration measurements and electric accelleration measurements. I analyzed the data and came up with the following values. Atilla's terminology is a little off. What he is calling "Regeneration" I call the total efficiency of reuse which is about 45 to 50 %. The efficiency of the regeneration (electricity generated during braking compared to change in kinetic energy) is quite high - 85 % plus. But the efficiency of getting the electricy into and back out of the battery, through the motor and too the wheels is not as good as one might hope for in the Prius.

Which is because the Prius is a hybrid car, not an electric car. The design compromises results in too small motor and too high resistance connections for pure electric operation efficiently. A lithium battery with half the internal resistance (lithium batteries return more of the supplied charge), another MG2 and half the connection resistance would probably improve that situation dramatically.

 

One year on and we're still waiting. Oh well.

 

What's the stock ticker?

 

Ok, so Lockheed Martin teamed up with EEStore, but that doesn't give any more credibility to their claims.

But one thing I'm wondering, what's the life span of a theoretical "ultracapacitor"?? Do they have the same limitations as batteries, meaning their are a strict number of "recharge" states it can do? I'm guessing it works a bit different than a standard capacitor because I can't wrap my mind around how you can build one to store that much energy, all you need is one arcing event to ruin a capacitor, can't imagine what that'd do for an ultra one

 

capacitors are typically more reliable and durable then batteries. They can withstand millions of discharge and recharge cycles.

 

The FIRST Capacitance Gel powered car.
From, like I have always said, the most prophetic movie of all time!

 

I cannot say if you are right or wrong, but here's one supplier of ultracapacitors who does indeed claim they are finding use in hybrid cars:
Maxwell Technologies: Ultracapacitors - Applications - Automotive