GM to Offer Hydrogen-Powered Vehicles in Four-Year

I hope for GM's sake that it 's true. If they could make a good alternative fuel vehicle I would be very interested.

I hate to be skeptical, but it sounds like they are announcing this to get incentives from the Bush administration and Congress. I would hate to see them develop another alternete fuel vehicle and then just crush them and leave them in the desert.

Oh well, I guess we'll know in 4 years.

 

:lol:

I would not buy a Fuel cell car for another 10 years after they come out.

Here is the common problem:

1. It is limited in mileage
2. cannot refuel them like a gas car now :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
3. new technology, do not know how long it will last (sound familar?)
4. repair cost is going to be crazy having to be serviced by GM
5. GM service sucks
6. GM quality sucks
7. I don't want to haul around a time bomb (Me spreading rumor.. ).

Ok. I want my electric car. At least there is good history with the Toyota Rav4EV. And the fact that I want to buy solar panels for my roof...

 

The technology in Prius already reliability delivers significantly improved emissions and efficiency... and upgrades are in the works.

Fuel-Cell technology sure looks like a step backward, using hydrogen just for the sake of using hydrogen rather than focusing on a goal.

What is the goal?

 

Why develop another technology that lacks sufficient infrastructure to support it. E85 is no better, I would not take a road trip with an alternate fuel vehicle.

 

Let me add some more FUD and see if Fuel Cell can pass like HSD with flying colors.

Does it need to plug in?
How long will it take to pay back the Fuel Cell premium?
Will it every pay back? (ahem... let's compare it to Corolla )
How will it perform in a crash?
How about in the rain or flood?
How about if a lightning strike?
How much increase will I see in insurance rate?
Low 'mpg' in the winter? Will it get EPA rating?
etc...

 

Do you understand that a vehicle which can use E85 does not actually require it?

In other words, you could leave with E85 in the tank and use nothing but pure gas until you return back home.

I suspect a new misconception is emerging.

 

I hope they are right. Lets face it, we will someday need to get off dino based fuels, or more correctly, hydrocarbons. Methane (natural gas), is the only member of this family that can be created (rotting garbage, manure, etc). But the problem is the carbon, when burned, CO2, a greenhouse gas.
H2 on the other hand has only combustion byproduct, water vapor. Now how we create the H2 can be a problem if we follow the extract from fosil fuel method, this rings of oil interest influence to me. Seperating it from water on the other makes perfect sense. With solar, wind, and tidal power we can produce H2 nearly anywhere, even as a cottage industry. A distribution infrastructure however will still prove to be a formidal task, but it has been done before.
As for the supposed dangers of H2, I think we have another myth brewing here. First, I would rather have an H2 station next door than regular gas station. Remember, hydrogin is the lightest element, if it leaks out, it goes straight up and out of harms way, gas on the other hand, seeps into the ground. H2 by itself is not explosive, only if it gets contaminated with oxygen. Of course this is the same with gasoline, but then again, H2 goes up, gasoline vapors settle in low places, possibly your basement.

 

A perfect application would have been to retrofit all those EV-1 cars. Too bad The General crushed them all.

 

There is a hydrogen station by the Orlando Airport. They use it to fuel the hydrogen buses there. I learned this after the hydrogen Focus paid a visit to our school. If GM wants to make a successful hydrogen car they need to do two things:
Get better mileage with the hydrogen fuel. A range of 100 miles is horrible.
Find a better place for the fuel cask than the trunk, the number one complaint about the car at school was the lack of space.
GM's hywire concept is a good start, but it needs to be well made and needs a support structure before it goes on the market.

 

As for the supposed dangers of H2, I think we have another myth brewing here. First, I would rather have an H2 station next door than regular gas station. Remember, hydrogin is the lightest element, if it leaks out, it goes straight up and out of harms way, gas on the other hand, seeps into the ground. H2 by itself is not explosive, only if it gets contaminated with oxygen. Of course this is the same with gasoline, but then again, H2 goes up, gasoline vapors settle in low places, possibly your basement.

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Huh?

Oxygen mixes with H2 boom,

Gasoline mixes with oxygen it soaks into the ground add fire then it ignites..

either way it may happen in my life time or it may not..

If one had a methane car one could stick a little tube somewere for emergency fuel.. LOL

I like the idea of using seawater or a biodeisel that uses cooking oil.. then you'd find everyone hangin out by the tail pipe sniffin the fries :lol: .

Peace~

 

I don't want to sound crass here... but BS!

Why would anybody want to take a fantastic battery car and screw it up by using H2? Batteries are where it's at folks. Takes 4x the electricity to make an H2 vehicle drive a mile than it does to make a battery car drive the same mile. And on top of that, H2 cars require batteries!

Speaking of screwing up a battery car to make a FCV - that's exactly what Mercedes did. The A-series was made to be a battery car... and several prototypes were built. They ended up using the car for a FCV, called F-cell. That car has less range, less power, less fuel availability, 100x the price... of the battery car.

Oooh, how I dislike seeing this happen. Fuel Cells have forever been the excuse to not produce battery cars. GM sued the state of CA to eliminate the ZEV mandate... and now they say they really want to make THIS kind of ZEV? One that is insanely more expensive to build, far more complicated to build and operate, with less range and power. Doesn't make sense to this skeptic who had his EV1 taken away by GM!

 

I don't know.

Depends upon what GM can pull out of their arse. The article gives no specifics. Who's to say they don't come up with something bad-nice person that revolutionizes the whole concept? Great things happen when energies become focused. Conversely, it could be a dud. You just don't know, but I'm not going to say a flat out "No" on something 4 years into the future...

 

It won't be competitive... since that requires *TIME* for consumer acceptance.

But giving the benefit of the doubt for the technology itself, and completely ignoring the lack of fuel availability, the cost alone could be a killer. After all, that ended up being the biggest hold back for the plug-in electric vehicles.

 

Lots of GM bashing going on here. I love my Prius too but I also own a 1999 Chevy Venture that's been a terrific vehicle. It's got 169,000 mi. on it now and it still Looks like new, still runs like new, still rides like new. A side from normal servicing the only repairs it's needed: Intake manifold repair (covered under waranty), exhaust mani fold cracked last year and new water pump 2 yr. ago. Always gets 23 mpg's in everday driving on trips it gets 26 mpg. Not bad considering the size of the van. Except for my Prius in terms of quality it's been one of the best cars I ever owned. And our local Chevy dealer is outstanding in terms of service.

 

for what it's worth if every vehicle in NA was electric there isn't enough generating capacity to "fuel" 1/10 of them. At this time were into brown downs and "trips" in the summer with the load we currently at. Throw the entire entire automotive requirement into the equation and it just dosen't work. Sorry. Hydrogen stacks are still 20-30 years away from commercial viablitity and then there's the supply infrastructure problem. The stacks we have now don't start when cold, MTBF is in the range of 2000 hours and the cost is what? $50K for one sized that would power a vehicle. Sorry people were stuck with gasoline for ther foreseable future. Our only real hope is the Gov to get off their nice person and mandate higher CAFE standards. But this old guy will be long dead and gone before any of the above will ever happen.

 

What has PC come to when Squid comes across as the one with an open mind????

In the not so distant future plentiful oil is going to be replaced by a world hungry for scarce energy.
Instead of "cursing the darkness" we or perhaps our kids are going to be scounging for what they can find. Getting the most bang for the fewest BTUs will be where it is at and my bet is with Darell.

Allan de

 

I'm surprised it took that long for you to respond to my obvious bait! You must be slipping ...