GM introduces new crossover vehicle

Godiva · Jul 13, 2006

GM introduces new crossover lineup.

"GMC, the General Motors brand known for rugged work trucks, introduced a crossover to its lineup, adding to a fast-growing market segment that aims to mix passenger capacity with a sleeker look and better gas mileage.

The 2007 GMC Acadia, which was introduced Wednesday, is the brand's first front-wheel-drive vehicle. It and the similar Saturn Outlook are General Motors Corp.'s newest mainstream car-based vehicles with three rows of seats.

Both can hold up to eight people and get 17 miles per gallon of gasoline in the city and 25 on the highway, according to GM's estimates. They are equipped with a new six-speed automatic transmission."

"They will help GM take on competitors' models such as the Ford Edge, Chrysler Pacifica, Toyota Highlander, Honda Pilot and Nissan Murano, he said."

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They're NOT calling it an SUV. They're calling it a "car-based vehicle". Uh...huh?

Oh, and that 17 miles per gallon is going to be a real draw. Especially compared to the Highlander Hybrid.

They're going to build three of these. The Saturn Outlook, GMC Acadia and later a Buick Version. Now I must ask...why three of the same SUV...er...car? Why have so many versions of the same thing? Well, at least they're not building a Chevy version.

And apparently they have realized people are moving from SUVs to cars. This is their "car".

Tempus · Jul 13, 2006

GMC Lambda Platform

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GM_Lambda_platform

Lambda is General Motors' future minivan/"sport wagon" automobile platform. The architecture will debut two years after initially planned in 2006. The program was delayed several times because of company fears that it would take sales and profits away from the GMT truck platform.

The Buick Enclave was previewed at the 2006 North American International Auto Show, officially as a concept, making it the first Lambda vehicle to be displayed. The first Lambda vehicle on sale will be the 2007 Saturn Outlook, introduced in April at the New York Auto Show, which be followed shortly thereafter by the Buick Enclave and GMC Acadia. Pontiac was originally scheduled to receive a Lambda model, but it was given to GMC as a reward for strong sales.

Lambda vehicles will feature minivan-like three-row seating. They will be offered with both V6 and V8 engines. Unlike the similar Theta crossover SUVs, the Lambdas will offer less ground clearance. The platform has been designed for front and all-wheel drive applications. The Lambda platform is very versatile in that it can be made into a very swoopy and svelte design, or a more upright, boxy shape.

Lambda vehicles will be produced in the new Delta Township Assembly plant near Lansing, Michigan. Delays in introducing the Lambda vehicles has suspended the start of production at that plant by more than two years from the initial schedule.

The Lambda platforms may also spawn a Chi platform for mid-size sedans, to replace the aging W-body.

Minivans

GM will replace the current U-body minivans with new vehicles using the Lambda platform for the 2009 model year. They will reportedly look very different from today's offerings, with one GM insider saying they look "like spaceships". They will have fold-flat seats and other features not currently available on the U-body vans.

Vehicles

Future vehicles based on this platform:

2007 Saturn Outlook (production started May 24, 2006)
2007 GMC Acadia 8-passenger sport wagon
2008 Buick Enclave (replaces Buick Rendezvous and Buick Rainier)
2009 Chevrolet Uplander
2009 GMC Minivan (Pontiac Montana Replacement)
2009 Buick Terraza

Cancelled vehicles based on this platform:

2007 Pontiac sport wagon - Pontiac got the Theta-based 2006 Torrent instead.
SUT (Sport Utility Truck) competitor to the Honda Ridgeline

finman · Jul 13, 2006

Cool!! Do ANY of these vehicles contain a hybrid option? Or get better than 25 MPG real-world?

Didn't think so. oh well, when the Sienna hybrid happens, what will GM have then?

I'm just not a GM fan. Love to see them succeed...with more fuel-efficient hybrids, but it looks not to be happening.

Cheers,

Curt.

wstander · Jul 13, 2006

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Godiva @ Jul 13 2006, 02:37 AM) [snapback]285531[/snapback]</div>

GM introduces new crossover lineup.

"GMC, the General Motors brand known for rugged work trucks, introduced a crossover to its lineup, adding to a fast-growing market segment that aims to mix passenger capacity with a sleeker look and better gas mileage.

The 2007 GMC Acadia, which was introduced Wednesday, is the brand's first front-wheel-drive vehicle. It and the similar Saturn Outlook are General Motors Corp.'s newest mainstream car-based vehicles with three rows of seats.

Both can hold up to eight people and get 17 miles per gallon of gasoline in the city and 25 on the highway, according to GM's estimates. They are equipped with a new six-speed automatic transmission."

"They will help GM take on competitors' models such as the Ford Edge, Chrysler Pacifica, Toyota Highlander, Honda Pilot and Nissan Murano, he said."

*********

They're NOT calling it an SUV. They're calling it a "car-based vehicle". Uh...huh?

Oh, and that 17 miles per gallon is going to be a real draw. Especially compared to the Highlander Hybrid.

They're going to build three of these. The Saturn Outlook, GMC Acadia and later a Buick Version. Now I must ask...why three of the same SUV...er...car? Why have so many versions of the same thing? Well, at least they're not building a Chevy version.

And apparently they have realized people are moving from SUVs to cars. This is their "car".
[/b]
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Yeah, that gas mileage is sooooo much worse than the gas only/equilvalent Highlander's 18-24

I suppose it is too much for people to realize that the Highlander, in all its flavors, including its snooty clone from Lexus, are all 'car-based' as well.

Naw, didn't think so B)

MarinJohn · Jul 13, 2006

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Godiva @ Jul 13 2006, 02:37 AM) [snapback]285531[/snapback]</div>

GM introduces new crossover lineup.

They're NOT calling it an SUV. They're calling it a "car-based vehicle". Uh...huh?

And apparently they have realized people are moving from SUVs to cars. This is their "car".
[/b]
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Isn't it still true that "truck" built platforms are exempt from many US auto regulations?
Whereas "car" built platforms are back in the game of safety and other mandated regulations?

I haven't personally seen any of these vehicles but I hope they are more like cars whereby I can see either over, around or through them if they are in front of me thereby lessening my danger if the second car ahead of me stops suddenly.

dipper · Jul 13, 2006

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(MarinJohn @ Jul 13 2006, 08:24 AM) [snapback]285630[/snapback]</div>

Isn't it still true that "truck" built platforms are exempt from many US auto regulations?
Whereas "car" built platforms are back in the game of safety and other mandated regulations?

I haven't personally seen any of these vehicles but I hope they are more like cars whereby I can see either over, around or through them if they are in front of me thereby lessening my danger if the second car ahead of me stops suddenly.
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Nope. Just as long as it looks like a truck/SUV. Then that is how it is classified. That is why all the crossover SUV with crappy mileage (MB, VW, Porshe, Honda) are exempt from gas guzzler tax.

Jonnycat26 · Jul 13, 2006

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(dipper @ Jul 13 2006, 12:38 PM) [snapback]285685[/snapback]</div>

Nope. Just as long as it looks like a truck/SUV. Then that is how it is classified. That is why all the crossover SUV with crappy mileage (MB, VW, Porshe, Honda) are exempt from gas guzzler tax.
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Actually, the Car/Truck dividing line is based on weight, not 'as long as it looks like a truck/SUV'.

HTMLSpinnr · Jul 13, 2006

I thought ground clearance and construction had something to do with it too? Door count as well?

I recall a while back (at least in CA) that the Toyota 4-Runner was counted as a truck if 2 doors, but a car if 4 doors - perhaps for registration purposes only.

Anyway with ground clearance, I seem to remember the Subaru Forrester (or was it Outback?) was re-designed with higher ground clearance in order to be re-classified so that it's fuel economy could be counted in the SUV class and not the car class (?). It was a dirty trick - which is why it seems to stick out in my mind.

aaf709 · Jul 13, 2006

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Jonnycat26 @ Jul 13 2006, 09:47 AM) [snapback]285691[/snapback]</div>

Actually, the Car/Truck dividing line is based on weight, not 'as long as it looks like a truck/SUV'.
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I understand that the PT Cruiser is classified as a truck, but not the convertible version, which is classified as a car. Something to do about being able to remove the rear seats or not.

Jonnycat26 · Jul 13, 2006

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(htmlspinnr @ Jul 13 2006, 01:05 PM) [snapback]285701[/snapback]</div>

I thought ground clearance and construction had something to do with it too? Door count as well?
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Actually, you're right... I remember that too. But weight is also a factor. I know that over a certain limit, SUVs become Trucks (6000 lbs?) which means that they're not allowed on some roads in NJ (the northern portions of the Parkway), and aren't allowed to cross some bridges.

The 4Runner is classified as a Medium SUV, regardless of the number of doors) according to the EPA.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(aaf709 @ Jul 13 2006, 01:25 PM) [snapback]285717[/snapback]</div>

I understand that the PT Cruiser is classified as a truck, but not the convertible version, which is classified as a car. Something to do about being able to remove the rear seats or not.
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The PT Cruiser is listed as a SUV on the EPA website, as is the convertible.

Tideland Prius · Jul 13, 2006

We all thought Acura was late into the car-based SUV with the MDX, then we thought VW was late with the Touraeg then the Audi Q7 and now GM's line of car-based SUVs. Let's hope they ride better than the Trailblazer/Envoy

aaf709 · Jul 13, 2006

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Jonnycat26 @ Jul 13 2006, 10:38 AM) [snapback]285722[/snapback]</div>

The PT Cruiser is listed as a SUV on the EPA website, as is the convertible.
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Interesting. I went to the EPA site and it's listed as a SUV. I wonder why Car and Driver (among other sites) say it's a truck?

Godiva · Jul 13, 2006

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(wstander @ Jul 13 2006, 09:44 AM) [snapback]285615[/snapback]</div>

Yeah, that gas mileage is sooooo much worse than the gas only/equilvalent Highlander's 18-24
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Well, the Highlander is available in a hybrid version. And compared to a Highlander Hybrid, the mileage is so much worse.

wstander · Jul 13, 2006

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Godiva @ Jul 13 2006, 11:18 AM) [snapback]285764[/snapback]</div>

Well, the Highlander is available in a hybrid version. And compared to a Highlander Hybrid, the mileage is so much worse.
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Granted, but a large premium

NuShrike · Jul 13, 2006

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(wstander @ Jul 13 2006, 07:44 AM) [snapback]285615[/snapback]</div>

Yeah, that gas mileage is sooooo much worse than the gas only/equilvalent Highlander's 18-24 [/b]
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And the SUV Escape is still better. GM using the "anything better than nothing" argument?

wstander · Jul 13, 2006

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Tideland Prius @ Jul 13 2006, 10:42 AM) [snapback]285732[/snapback]</div>

We all thought Acura was late into the car-based SUV with the MDX, then we thought VW was late with the Touraeg then the Audi Q7 and now GM's line of car-based SUVs. Let's hope they ride better than the Trailblazer/Envoy
[/b]
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Guess y'all forgot about the Cadillac SRV?

Tempus · Jul 13, 2006

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(htmlspinnr @ Jul 13 2006, 01:05 PM) [snapback]285701[/snapback]</div>

I thought ground clearance and construction had something to do with it too? Door count as well?

Anyway with ground clearance, I seem to remember the Subaru Forrester (or was it Outback?) was re-designed with higher ground clearance in order to be re-classified so that it's fuel economy could be counted in the SUV class and not the car class (?). It was a dirty trick - which is why it seems to stick out in my mind.
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You're right. It was the Forester. Subaru found that if they raised the Ground Clearance by 3/4" they could classify it as a Truck and get lower CAFE and pollution goals.

Yeah, it was a dirty trick.

Edit: Oops, looks like it was the Outback.

Subaru Defends Calling a Sedan and Wagon a Truck for CAFE Purposes
Sourced From: Automotive News, January 26, 2004

Situation
1. Subaru defends decision to change designation of 2005 Outback sedan and wagon
2. Both to be considered light truck for federal fuel economy purposes
3. Subaru says customers want more SUV features in Outback
4. Other cries of foul came when Chrysler labeled PT Cruiser a light truck
5. Allowed because removable seats open up flat load floor

Significant Points
1. Federal regulations define light truck as 4WD vehicle that meets 4 of 5 criteria
2. Including approach angle, breakover angle, departure angle, running clearance and axle clearance
3. New, higher-riding Outbacks meet and exceed 4 of 5 criteria
4. Tough for Subaru to meet 27.5mpg fuel economy standard for cars; light-truck standard is 20.7mpg
5. Subaru now free to make Outback more powerful w/o fear of endangering car standards

Says
"It's one more example of how definitions set up in the '70s are not adequate for the 21st century." -- Tim Hurd, spokesman, NHTSA

From Another Source

http://atbozzo.blogspot.com/2005/08/renova...truck-cafe.html

There are a couple of loopholes through whcih cars and car-like automobiles can get classified as trucks for the purpose of fuel economy regulations. One is that a vehicle whose seats can be easily removed and replaced, using simple tools, to create a flat cargo floor may be classified as a light truck. This is the provision through which many minivans, and car-based wagon-styled confections such as the Chrysler PT Cruiser and Chevrolet HHR, gain light truck status. Second, "off-road" vehicles, defined as automobiles with four-wheel drive that meet several ground clearance standards, may also be classified as light trucks. This provision was used to reclassify the Subaru Legacy Outback wagon as a "truck" as of its recent redesign.

NuShrike · Jul 13, 2006

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Tempus @ Jul 13 2006, 12:58 PM) [snapback]285774[/snapback]</div>

There are a couple of loopholes through whcih cars and car-like automobiles can get classified as trucks for the purpose of fuel economy regulations. One is that a vehicle whose seats can be easily removed and replaced, using simple tools, to create a flat cargo floor may be classified as a light truck. This is the provision through which many minivans, and car-based wagon-styled confections such as the Chrysler PT Cruiser and Chevrolet HHR, gain light truck status. Second, "off-road" vehicles, defined as automobiles with four-wheel drive that meet several ground clearance standards, may also be classified as light trucks. This provision was used to reclassify the Subaru Legacy Outback wagon as a "truck" as of its recent redesign.[/b]
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So.. does this mean all the Prius needs to do is raise clearance some X inches and then it can be classified as a 50MPG truck?

Godiva · Jul 13, 2006

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(wstander @ Jul 13 2006, 02:42 PM) [snapback]285767[/snapback]</div>

Granted, but a large premium
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We won't know that until we know what the price is and what the car is equipped with. (And how it drives and how often you'll have to have it repaired within the first year......)

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(NuShrike @ Jul 13 2006, 03:08 PM) [snapback]285781[/snapback]</div>

So.. does this mean all the Prius needs to do is raise clearance some X inches and then it can be classified as a 50MPG truck?
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LOL! In my mind's eye I pictured a Prius jacked up on a frame with monster wheels. Like at those monster truck rallies.

dipper · Jul 13, 2006

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(NuShrike @ Jul 13 2006, 01:08 PM) [snapback]285781[/snapback]</div>

So.. does this mean all the Prius needs to do is raise clearance some X inches and then it can be classified as a 50MPG truck?
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Then Toyota can claim the first PZEV SUV... :lol:

GM introduces new crossover vehicle

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