1. Attachments are working again! Check out this thread for more details and to report any other bugs.

Gen4 P610 transaxle lubrication and cooling

Discussion in 'Gen 4 Prius Technical Discussion' started by JDenyer232, Nov 4, 2016.

  1. JDenyer232

    JDenyer232 Member

    Joined:
    Sep 10, 2016
    44
    46
    0
    Location:
    Maine
    Vehicle:
    2016 Prius
    Model:
    Two
    So I signed up for a 2 day subscription to Toyota TIS. I thought I would share a couple of things that I learned about the P610 trans-axle. The PSD is definitely lubricated by the engine driven transmission oil pump, when the engine is off then no lubricating oil is fed to the PSD. I would assume that lubrication when running on the electric motor only is accomplished simply by the oil that remains in the PSD. All other gears and bearings are splash lubricated from the differential gear. There are 5 catch chambers above the gear train and the MG units. At the bottom of the catch chambers there are holes that allow oil to run down on the various gear train components and the MG units to lubricate and cool them. The bottom of the differential gear sits in the ATF and splashes it up into these catch chambers. It's a pretty simple yet effective way to lubricate when the car is driving on electric alone.

    ATF cooling is accomplished by a liquid to liquid heat exchanger. The coolant used comes from the inverter cooling circuit. No cooling occurs when the engine is off due to the fact that the trans-axle oil pump is not turning. Just a fun fact, the inverter cooling pump delivers a minimum of 10 liters per minute.
     
    #1 JDenyer232, Nov 4, 2016
    Former Member 68813 likes this.
  2. Former Member 68813

    Former Member 68813 Senior Member

    Joined:
    Oct 3, 2010
    3,524
    981
    8
    Location:
    US
    Vehicle:
    Other Hybrid
    Model:
    N/A
    how is it different from the previous gen?
     
    #2 Former Member 68813, Nov 4, 2016
    JDenyer232 likes this.
  3. JDenyer232

    JDenyer232 Member

    Joined:
    Sep 10, 2016
    44
    46
    0
    Location:
    Maine
    Vehicle:
    2016 Prius
    Model:
    Two
    The biggest change is the liquid to liquid heat exchanger, and the new layout of MG1 and MG2. I'm not sure how the previous gen handled lubrication when on electric alone, I have not looked that up yet.
     
    #3 JDenyer232, Nov 4, 2016
  4. JDenyer232

    JDenyer232 Member

    Joined:
    Sep 10, 2016
    44
    46
    0
    Location:
    Maine
    Vehicle:
    2016 Prius
    Model:
    Two
    Well I just looked and the previous gen uses splash lubrication and catch chambers as well, hmmm so much for it being a new feature:(
     
    #4 JDenyer232, Nov 4, 2016
  5. alexgrigori

    alexgrigori Active Member

    Joined:
    Oct 6, 2016
    163
    109
    0
    Location:
    Canada
    Vehicle:
    2017 Prius
    Model:
    Technology
    does it to any extend connected to CVT cooling & lubricating system?
     
    #5 alexgrigori, Nov 4, 2016
  6. Trollbait

    Trollbait It's a D&D thing

    Joined:
    Feb 7, 2006
    22,447
    11,760
    0
    Location:
    eastern Pennsylvania
    Vehicle:
    Other Non-Hybrid
    This is the CVT cooling and lube system. There isn't a traditional CVT in these types of hybrids. The planetary gear in the transaxle is manipulated by varying inputs from the ICE and MG1 to act like a CVT. This is why it is referred to as an eCVT.
     
    #6 Trollbait, Nov 4, 2016
    alexgrigori and JDenyer232 like this.
  7. alexgrigori

    alexgrigori Active Member

    Joined:
    Oct 6, 2016
    163
    109
    0
    Location:
    Canada
    Vehicle:
    2017 Prius
    Model:
    Technology
    Hmmm, I thought CVT is a belt driven (pushing) system.
     
    #7 alexgrigori, Nov 4, 2016
  8. JimboPalmer

    JimboPalmer Tsar of all the Rushers

    Joined:
    Apr 14, 2009
    12,470
    6,871
    2
    Location:
    Greenwood MS USA
    Vehicle:
    2012 Prius v wagon
    Model:
    Three
    No, there was a chain to the differential in Gen 1 and 2, but in Gen 3 and beyond it is all constantly meshed gears. (there is a one way clutch added to the Prime)

    Gen 2 on left with chain, Gen 3 on right with gears
    [​IMG]
     
    #8 JimboPalmer, Nov 4, 2016
    That_Prius_Car, RCO, wrprice and 2 others like this.
  9. Mendel Leisk

    Mendel Leisk EGR Fanatic

    Joined:
    Oct 17, 2010
    56,664
    39,220
    80
    Location:
    Greater Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada
    Vehicle:
    2010 Prius
    Model:
    Touring
    The Prius transaxle uses the name eCVT, is really different than a tradional CVT. All it has in common is that there's no shift-points.

    "4th" generation at the introduction, but it's first through third gen's covered. The video was posted in 2012, very interesting, in-depth description of the various Prius transaxles. Not sure why, but I always nod off for a bit while watching this and similar by the same author:

     
    #9 Mendel Leisk, Nov 4, 2016
    RCO, alanclarkeau, alexgrigori and 1 other person like this.
  10. Trollbait

    Trollbait It's a D&D thing

    Joined:
    Feb 7, 2006
    22,447
    11,760
    0
    Location:
    eastern Pennsylvania
    Vehicle:
    Other Non-Hybrid
    That's a traditional CVT.

    Many reviewers and reporters get lazy and refer to the Prius and other hybrids as just CVT, but they are really CVT in name only, because their operation behaves like a CVT to the driver. Then for further confusion, some hybrid systems(Honda's older one, and maybe Nissan's) were mated up to a traditional CVT.

    Unless the discussion is about a discontinued Honda IMA hybrid, the hybrid has an eCVT, which is physically different than a CVT.
     
    #10 Trollbait, Nov 4, 2016
    RCO, alexgrigori and JDenyer232 like this.
  11. alexgrigori

    alexgrigori Active Member

    Joined:
    Oct 6, 2016
    163
    109
    0
    Location:
    Canada
    Vehicle:
    2017 Prius
    Model:
    Technology
    Thanks Mendel!
    I've seen it before. BTW, I have posted gen 4 trans-axle presentation in the other thread. It is not linear like 1-3 gen but side-by-side orientation.
    I was surprised to hear that all these transaxels were developed not by Toyota.
    For some reason I was under impression that belt CVT is in too. The confusion is related to my test drive of gen 4 Prius. I asked about specific noise Prius transmission had made and Toyota rep said that this is belt friction noise in CVT.
    Regards,
    alex
     
    #11 alexgrigori, Nov 4, 2016
    Last edited: Nov 4, 2016
  12. Trollbait

    Trollbait It's a D&D thing

    Joined:
    Feb 7, 2006
    22,447
    11,760
    0
    Location:
    eastern Pennsylvania
    Vehicle:
    Other Non-Hybrid
    Sounds like the Toyota rep was informed as car reviewers:rolleyes:

    I like a belt would actually be quieter than gears directly meshing.
     
    #12 Trollbait, Nov 4, 2016
    RCO likes this.
  13. alexgrigori

    alexgrigori Active Member

    Joined:
    Oct 6, 2016
    163
    109
    0
    Location:
    Canada
    Vehicle:
    2017 Prius
    Model:
    Technology
    The CVT belt is a remarkable peace of engineering (apparently not related to Prius):

     
    #13 alexgrigori, Nov 4, 2016
    Last edited: Nov 5, 2016
    Gori73 and William Redoubt like this.
  14. alanclarkeau

    alanclarkeau Senior Member

    Joined:
    Feb 24, 2016
    7,044
    7,587
    0
    Location:
    near Brisbane, Australia
    Vehicle:
    2016 Prius
    Model:
    N/A
    I didn't realise they were developed by other than TOYOTA (I thought I'd read partly in conjunction with AISIN-SEIKI which is essentially TOYOTA anyway). Did you read otherwise?
     
    #14 alanclarkeau, Nov 4, 2016
  15. alexgrigori

    alexgrigori Active Member

    Joined:
    Oct 6, 2016
    163
    109
    0
    Location:
    Canada
    Vehicle:
    2017 Prius
    Model:
    Technology
    I think this company is behind this development. It is a big public company but I never heard about it. Wiki shows that Toyota owned 30% of it
     
    #15 alexgrigori, Nov 4, 2016
  16. ChapmanF

    ChapmanF Senior Member

    Joined:
    Mar 30, 2008
    24,902
    16,209
    0
    Location:
    Indiana, USA
    Vehicle:
    2010 Prius
    Model:
    IV
    Lots of interesting stories about original development in this book.

    [​IMG]

    -Chap
     
    #16 ChapmanF, Nov 4, 2016
    RCO likes this.
  17. alanclarkeau

    alanclarkeau Senior Member

    Joined:
    Feb 24, 2016
    7,044
    7,587
    0
    Location:
    near Brisbane, Australia
    Vehicle:
    2016 Prius
    Model:
    N/A
    #17 alanclarkeau, Nov 4, 2016
    RCO likes this.
(You must log in or sign up to post here.)