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Full charge, coast downhill -> engine runs?

Discussion in 'Gen 1 Prius Plug-in 2012-2015' started by ntucker, Feb 12, 2013.

  1. ntucker

    ntucker Junior Member

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    Something has been driving me nuts about my PiP lately: I am getting terrible mileage because it is constantly turning the engine on when it doesn't need to. I know running the heater causes the engine to kick on and kills mileage, so I have been doing experiments lately by religiously keeping the heater off to see if I can figure out what else will cause the engine to turn on, and besides putting the pedal down hard, I can't figure out any rhyme or reason to it. It's making me think the car is defective.

    Here is my most clear-cut example: I live on the side of a steep hill. If I unplug my car (full charge), pull out of my driveway, point down the hill, and coast, gravity will easily get me up to well over the speed limit in less than a block (it's an 18% grade). And about halfway down the block, the internal combustion engine turns on. Wth is it doing? I don't even need any power yet! I'm heading to a destination less than 1 mile away that is completely down hill, I have a full battery, and yet i'm using the ICE.

    The hardware store is one of these destinations I've been to repeatedly in this exact scenario (again: full charge, heater off), and here's how bad it is: it's a very short trip and it runs the ICE the entire time (except for the first half-block), and the result is a pathetic 24mpg despite the fact that it's all downhill! On the way back, I get 999mpg! Every time. My car gets better mileage driving up an 18% grade than going down it. Someone please explain this craziness to me.
     
  2. retired4999

    retired4999 Prius driver since 2005

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    The internal combustion engine turns on . Normal ! Cars is starting to bleed off excess electric energy. No room to store. :)
     
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  3. retired4999

    retired4999 Prius driver since 2005

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    Try starting with 3/4 of a charge, then go down hill you will be fine.
     
  4. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    welcome to priuschat! ^+1^:) see the many threads here on the subject, we are on the verge of a breakthrough!(y)
     
  5. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    again, i'll say it before 'you know who', you should have bought a volt.:ROFLMAO:
     
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  6. ntucker

    ntucker Junior Member

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    And when I want to drive uphill or flat, I only get 75% of the range? That seems kind of ridiculous.
     
  7. retired4999

    retired4999 Prius driver since 2005

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    Sorry! But when you leave there is no room for more charge, it has to be bleed off, it has to go some were. With the extra room of a 75% charge it will take that extra charge and put it in battery and we hope it has the room for that.
     
  8. retired4999

    retired4999 Prius driver since 2005

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    That 75% charge is just a guess, you will have to see what works best in your case.
     
  9. retired4999

    retired4999 Prius driver since 2005

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    Bisco! Help give me a hand on this, your the down hill expert!
     
  10. retired4999

    retired4999 Prius driver since 2005

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    [quote="bisco, [/quote]
    Bisco, Give a helping hand!
     
  11. ntucker

    ntucker Junior Member

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    Browsing/searching around further, I see this is an oft-discussed topic. I guess I just don't see the logic of my car deciding "battery's too full, must slow down the car some other way" and deciding that burning gas is a better choice than using the brake pads. I can beat 24mpg going downhill in my pickup truck.
     
  12. retired4999

    retired4999 Prius driver since 2005

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    I understand your frustration, I don't have a hill to go down right away, I have to use about 1 mile of EV then, I have my down hill no problem here. :)
     
  13. Rainking

    Rainking Member

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    No because you will charge the battery back up through regen. That would be a pain though to have to remember to stop charging it before it reaches 100%.

    I wish the car car could switch to strictly friction breaks when the battery is full charged.
     
  14. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    retired has it right. if leaving your house and going downhill is your only option, try disconnecting the charger early. then you will charge up on the downhill and save some money on the wall charge. bonus: your engine won't fire up.
     
  15. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    try plugging in and setting the end timer for an hour later. where are you located? ambient temp also plays a roll.
     
  16. ntucker

    ntucker Junior Member

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    The problem with this strategy is that when I plug in the car, I don't know if next time I'm going to have to drive uphill or downhill. I'm not going to give up 75% of my EV range for all trips just because when I drive in one direction the car makes a dumb choice to burn gas instead of brake pads. I'll try going down the steep part of the hill (which is only 1 block long, so no risk of overheating the brakes) in N and see if that helps.

    It sounds to me like the ideal solution would be to be able to tweak the "full battery" threshold such that when regen braking on a full charge, it's allowed to go slightly higher than 85% rather than jumping straight to panic-and-burn-dinosaurs mode. A little hysteresis goes a long way.

    Edit: to answer the last question, I'm in Seattle, so it's chilly but not ridiculously cold. I think I saw somewhere that -10°C is the threshold for needing to turn the ICE on just because it's cold outside.
     
  17. retired4999

    retired4999 Prius driver since 2005

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    Well, each persons route is different and we all have to drive in a different way to maximize gas efficiency. You will just have to find the best route and driving pattern that works for you! Try to enjoy you car it is really nice! :)
     
  18. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    i can't argue with your complaint, but i would rather spend my time trying to do a work around than complain that toyota should have done this or that. we don't know all the reasons they do what they do. i think your neutral strategy should work, i have tried it a few times with success. as far as temps go, it's not just low temps that start the ice. it will fire up in temps as high as the high 40's f if your going down a slight decline at speed in the high 30's and battery within 15-20% full. i don't think this is your issue tho.
     
  19. ntucker

    ntucker Junior Member

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    Personally, I'm happy to geek out and understand the counterintuitive nature of the system to come up with workarounds, but I'm not sure my wife is so excited about that. :p It's her car and the change in efficiency during the winter months (mostly for the heater) has really soured her on how much extra we paid for the plugin option, so she's less forgiving of quirks like this.
     
  20. retired4999

    retired4999 Prius driver since 2005

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    Try this, car in ev mode, eco mode, Temp setting 65 degrees, fan speed setting 2. Now drive your normal route of 10.5 miles round trip, you should be able to get about 80+ mpg!