Freedom of Speech is Dead

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE("Devil's Advocate")</div>

You see, a mindset like your post, Advocate, is why I refuse to return to Las Vegas, Nevada. I lived there for about 7 years and I am relieved not to live there.

And also, I can pick and choose which threads to browse through. I can't avoid seeing an avatar until it's too late. And personally, as some don't like being forced into religion, I don't like having to be visually assaulted by what is clearly an offensive avatar. The First Amendment is your friend, not something you can use to shove tasteless images in someone's face.

And yes, I know I could have refrained from posting. HOWEVER, the thread title is deceptive, and I do believe that your liberties should not infringe on my rights.

 

No one has a constitutional right to free speech here. This is a private message board. The mods can censor anything they want.

 

Dry up already. Your list has numerous conspicuous absences, which by their very absence make your "argument" a vacuous crock.

And even if "free speech" were even a legitimate issue here (which it isn't), why defend gratuitous offensiveness?

It's one thing to be offensive as a rhetorical instrument of argument, the way a Sam Harris or a Richard Dawkins will methodically dismember common religious beliefs, but quite another to be offensive for no other reason than to be as irritating as possible to the widest possible audience. The first may be hard to live with, but the latter we can all live without.

Mark Baird
Alameda CA

 

Once again the lack of education shines through.

"Freedom of Speech" only applies to limits the GOVERNMENT puts on speech.

You have no such rights in a private place, whether it's a private house or a private forum.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Devil's Advocate @ May 10 2007, 07:41 PM) [snapback]439581[/snapback]</div>

In fact, YES, it is. Just ask anyone who happens to read this board in an office environment or otherwise at work.

Also (and I'll readily admit I'm not all that knowledgeable in this area at the outset) there's a program called WinHex with which even I have been able to recover tons of images that have been viewed or downloaded.......and that INCLUDES the likes of avatars and images posted on boards such as this one. If you already are aware of the foregoing, I apologize for the repetition. If not, you should check out some free forensic-type software floating around, install it, and see what you can recover. It's about as disturbing as it is amazing.

In fact, almost all of the images I was able to recover on my computers were completely unrecognizable to me; I couldn't figure out from whence they came. They certainly didn't appear to be associated with anything I had downloaded or viewed. But then I realized that almost all of the images had been "automatically" cached from sites just like this site as well as Yahoo, MSN, et al. It further does not matter how many times you clear the cache on your browser(s), run apps like CCleaner, Eraser, or even re-install your OS; the stuff STILL has the potential to be recovered and viewed.

So, imagine the embarrassment one would suffer if the IT folks at someone's place of employment just happened to conduct an investigation into what an employee has on his/her workstation. They could easily find some rather unsavory images......images that got there solely because the employee had made a few posts on some harmless and benign internet bulletin board or even just viewed one page. Better safe than sorry.....

 

"Freedom of Speech" also does not allow you to shout FIRE in a theater or commit libel or slander.
You have the freedom to criticize the government without fear of arrest. You do not have the right to say anything you like. You've NEVER had complete and utter freedom to say anything you wanted.


And as was said above...this is a private message board. If anyone wants to be offensive, they can do it somewhere else. The community sets the standards and those standards were crossed.

 

In the meantime, let use meditate on the name "Devil's Advocate".

 

Tag wasn't speaking just for himself.

 

Priuschat is one of hundreds of millions of websites and interactive communities on the internet. I am therefore not greatly concerned if a moderator decides to censor something on PC. Censorship of the internet itself would be altogether different, and intolerable. China tries to do it, without much sucess. If I don't like censorship on PC, I have many, many alternatives. Much as governments would like to, I doubt if they will ever be able to effectively censor the internet, since it is so international. If it was up to me, I would have no censorship except child pornography. Everything else would be available.

What did I think of the breasts-in-motion avatar? Not very erotic, mildly amusing and sophomoric. I can't say that I found it very offensive, even though it is in bad taste. I can understand how the sexism of it would offend some women, but it is incredibly mild compared to what you find on some other chat rooms - even those that attract highly educated people. Women can write limericks, for example, that make me blush. So not all women are so sensitive. Of greater concern to me would be a moderator removing something that others deemed politically offensive. I don't think this has happened.

Why not have a poll for these controversies to see what the PC community thinks? It should really be decided by PC community consensus, in my opinion.

 

Frankly, Devil, we all agreed to limits on our speech when we registered for the board:

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So what part of this don't you understand? The hyperbole of your argument is lame.

 

If everything "inaccurate" or "vulgar" was banned I think about 90% of posts would have to be removed. Who judges "accuracy" or whether something is "vulgar"? It's a bit more complicated than having a list of rules.

Should moderators be the final judges? Or should it be a majority of PC members?

For example, should this joke be banned?

"Why don't Republicans use bookmarks?
They just bend the pages over."

It is vulgar, but it is entirely appropriate given the real life context.

Do you really want to ban jokes like these? If so, good bye! (He trudges sadly toward the door, stage left, glancing back now and then with a kind of hopeful, expectant look)

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(jared2 @ May, 11:26 AM) [snapback]440100[/snapback]</div>

Oh please no! If the boundary on vulgarity were decided by popular vote from this crowd, I'm afraid I'd have to be faced with a lot worse than a couple of bouncing boobs.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Dragonfly @ May 11 2007, 02:46 PM) [snapback]440115[/snapback]</div>

Spoken like a true blueblood!

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(jared2 @ May, 11:48 AM) [snapback]440116[/snapback]</div>

Well I'm no royal, but I do have sensibilities.

 

I have sensibilities, but would like to have more cents.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Devil's Advocate @ May 11 2007, 10:53 AM) [snapback]440074[/snapback]</div>

Hoo boy. OK Mister Advocate, are you recommending that the gov't FORCE private forums NOT to censor? That the gov't make moderating a private forum ILLEGAL, so as not to soil the pristine ideal of free speech?

That is the logical thrust of your argument, which, I point out again, is already rendered impotent by the censorship you yourself practised in making up your original list above.

Mark Baird
Alameda CA

 

Whether govenment should ban moderators from doing anything is a red herring. The essential question is should a joke like the pages joke be banned? And if so, would that be for political reasons or reasons of bad taste? And if not, then should the breast avatar be banned? Why the difference? Once you start banning things, where do you stop? And can I come up with another rhetorical question?

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(jared2 @ May 11 2007, 01:40 PM) [snapback]440110[/snapback]</div>

The point I was making was that we all agreed to limit our speech in joining this forum, and that Devil's argument is pretty much base-less on those grounds alone.

Really, this thread should be titled "Much Ado about Nothing."

There's about a gazillion forums on the internet you can go to for unmoderated speech. And if you enjoy discussing female anatomy with twelve-year-olds, hey, more power to you. I bet you can even find more animated pictures of breasts.

An internet message board with no restrictions on speech quickly devolves into a cesspit. This is just a consequence of the perception of anonymity that the internet gives to its users; i.e., they feel free to say things they actually wouldn't say in public, because it's the internet and no one knows their real name.

But since this board is NOT called PenisChat (which is pretty much what you get with anonymous, unmoderated free speech), I'm happy to have the speech limited, and gross offences excised by the moderators. Who do a fine job, IMO.