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Forget CNN.

Discussion in 'Prius, Hybrid, EV and Alt-Fuel News' started by Godiva, Apr 22, 2006.

  1. Godiva

    Godiva AmeriKan Citizen

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    What buyers are choosing.

    "Consumers want their green cars to be very green. High-mileage hybrids such as Toyota's Prius and Honda's Civic are winners, but just being a hybrid isn't enough."

    "Toyota Sunnyvale sells 15 to 20 Highlander Hybrids a month, but it still has a 330-customer waiting list for the Prius, said owner Adam Simms. Miles per gallon is the key, he said. `Over 40 is wow in the consumer's mind. 30 is not.' "

    "Among hybrid buyers, two clear favorites have emerged. The Toyota Prius accounted for more than half of all U.S. hybrid sales last year, and topped 100,000 in sales for the first time. And Honda said it expects to sell 25,000 units of its Civic Hybrid this year. Both cars emphasize vastly improved mileage over gas-only vehicles -- a combined 55 city/highway mpg for the Prius, and 50 mpg for the Civic."
     
    #1 Godiva, Apr 22, 2006
  2. Ed Vatza

    Ed Vatza New Member

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Godiva @ Apr 22 2006, 01:25 AM) [snapback]243542[/snapback]</div>
    It seems to me that the different may lie in philosophy. When I look at vehicles like the Ford Escape or any of the SUVs or lower mileage luxury cars offered in gas and hybrid versions, I see the hybrid technology being used as a gimmick to sell more of that particular model. More of a "buy an Escape and, if you're interested, it comes in a hybrid." The hybrid is a line extension like Vanilla, Cherry, Lemon, Lime, Black Cherry Vanilla Coke.

    When I look at the Prius, I see the opposite. I see a modern-day classic; a truly amazing vehicle. It looks like a compact, has the room of a mid-size or bigger and rides like a luxury full-size automobile. And it has been designed to maximize gas efficiency. More of a "buy a hybrid. Which is best? The Prius."

    For this reason, I really question how the Hybrid Camry will fare. To be sure, the Camry is a fine automobile. And Toyota's hybrid technology is the best. But will 1+1=2? I'm not sure. Time will tell.
     
    #2 Ed Vatza, Apr 22, 2006
  3. mehrenst

    mehrenst Member

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    I looked at the Honda Civic and Accord when I bought my Prius. The Ford Escape wasn't available and even if it had been, because of my experience with an early Taurus (1993 & two blown headgaskets), I wasn't ready to jump into the Ford "family" of bleeding edge technology even if the technology was Toyota's.

    Let me start out by saying that I'm a pretty good size guy. I couldn't even fit behind the wheel of a Honda Civic. The salesman then tried to put me in an Accord. I could fit but there was not much room and the price was way past what I budgeted. I had looked at a Prius previously and had no problem fitting in the car.

    As to the technology, Toyota has it head-and-shoulders above the Hondas.

    Styling? Well, if I'm going to go to the point of making some kind of statement about being green then i want it visible without having to have someone 2 feet off my rear bumper before they see the car I'm driving is a hybrid. Honda screwed the pooch by using existing body styles. (Ford has done the same thing with their Escape and the mileage sucks too.) Toyota did it right by recognizing that people would want to make a statement. IMO, if they had stuck with the 1st generation approach then sales would hae gone flat a long time ago. It's the styling, DUMMY! B)
     
    #3 mehrenst, Apr 22, 2006
  4. Bob Allen

    Bob Allen Captainbaba

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(mehrenst @ Apr 23 2006, 04:42 AM) [snapback]243738[/snapback]</div>
    Says it all.
     
    #4 Bob Allen, May 8, 2006
  5. Tideland Prius

    Tideland Prius Moderator of the North
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    well it makes sense. If I wanted good mileage from a midsize car, any 4 cylinder midsize car would work - Sonata, Camry, Accord, Altima, 6. Most 4 cylinders are plenty powerful and give the mileage that people expect. Those going for V6 versions have reasons - more power, need towing capacity etc. They know there'll be a penalty in fuel usage so there really is no point of the Accord Hybrid; only a paltry 15hp more (that can be done with a CAI and exhaust and maybe an air filter if the first two aren't enough) and quite a bit more expensive.
     
    #5 Tideland Prius, May 8, 2006
  6. Drift Motion

    Drift Motion RMS13

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    the new camry hybrid is totally pointless
    like 5 mpg more...
     
    #6 Drift Motion, May 8, 2006
  7. Charles Suitt

    Charles Suitt Senior Member

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    QUOTE: "...the new camry hybrid is totally pointless..."

    ***IF*** you totally ignore the drastically reduced emissions.
     
    #7 Charles Suitt, May 9, 2006
  8. Jonnycat26

    Jonnycat26 New Member

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Charles Suitt @ May 9 2006, 06:15 PM) [snapback]252397[/snapback]</div>
    Which (not to bash the camry hybrid) is also available on the regular 4 cylinder (they're both PZEV).
     
    #8 Jonnycat26, May 9, 2006
  9. dipper

    dipper Senior Member

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(vtecKiller @ May 8 2006, 05:05 PM) [snapback]251807[/snapback]</div>
    Did someone failed their math in school growing up?

    TC4A = 24/33
    TCH = 40/38

    Assuming 50/50 use....

    TC4M = 28.5 mpg average
    TCH = 39 mpg average

    How did you only get 5mpg difference? :lol:
    Let me guess 38 - 33 = 5mpg better.... :rolleyes:
     
    #9 dipper, May 9, 2006
  10. etkal

    etkal New Member

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(dipper @ May 9 2006, 09:11 PM) [snapback]252501[/snapback]</div>
    So the Camry Hybrid is about 10mpg better than the 4Cyl Camry stick. My Prius is getting 49 average, 10mpg better yet. Note that I traded in my 2002 Camry 4Cyl SE for my Prius. The major regrets - a lockable trunk, the power driver's seat and the steering wheel (3-spoke leather-wrapped). Ok, I do miss the stick too... :)
     
    #10 etkal, May 9, 2006
  11. Tideland Prius

    Tideland Prius Moderator of the North
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    Except only a few states have PZEV vehicles.
     
    #11 Tideland Prius, May 10, 2006
  12. finman

    finman Senior Member

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Tideland Prius @ May 10 2006, 12:08 AM) [snapback]252591[/snapback]</div>

    See, I don't get that! Anyone have a good answer? Why limit PZEV technology? I'm all for reducing consumption with better MPG, but I would think emissions should be as important, seems cleaner air would benefit EVERYONE.

    Is the PZEV tech so much more expensive? No "payback" period or is it a PZEV "premium" that few would pay for?

    I'm in the camp that I'll pay to get ALL the benefits in order to combat global climate change, diminishing oil supplies, cleaner air, etc. I surely can't be the only one who sees it this way...

    Curt. B)
     
    #12 finman, May 10, 2006
  13. dipper

    dipper Senior Member

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(finman @ May 10 2006, 10:27 AM) [snapback]252884[/snapback]</div>
    Its not the cost to make it, but the cost to fix it under warranty. To be PZEV, the car must be warrantied for emission systems for 10yr/150k by the manufactor.

    This is also similar reason why Merc could not sell their new "clean" diesel cars next year in CA like states. CA requires emission systems to be maintanence free, but Merc requires filters to be changes... a no no... :rolleyes:
     
    #13 dipper, May 10, 2006
  14. finman

    finman Senior Member

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    Any idea what components make the low-emissions warranty longer on a PZEV than on a regular polluter? Is it really that simple, length of emissions warranty?

    How 'bout a PZEV diesel? You mentioned Mercedes. Are there really PZEV diesels? Can there be, with all the particles and such that diesels emit, notwithstanding the low-sulphur stuff that is overseas and coming to our shores?

    Curious minds want to know more about vege oil carbon-neutral fuels (sans petroleum!) too.

    Curt.
     
    #14 finman, May 10, 2006
  15. spwolf

    spwolf Senior Member

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Charles Suitt @ May 10 2006, 12:15 AM) [snapback]252397[/snapback]</div>

    kind of funny but so what if emission rating is the same? People dont understand that PZEV rating does not mean that all PZEV vehicles pollute the same. First of all, better MPG means a lot less CO2 in the air.

    Take a look at Camry PZEV - same emissions rating as Prius, yet greenhouse gas rating 7/10 while Prius has 10/10 rating on EPA website.

    Plus Hybrid that operates in electric mode is very helpful in polluted cities.
     
    #15 spwolf, May 12, 2006
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