Ford C-Max to Spawn a Prius-Fighting Family

This is great news.

Ford is really stepping up to the plate.

 

It is really nice to see a US company getting serious about competing with Toyota in the HEV and PHEV markets with a similar parallel hybrid platform. The more the merrier for the consumer.

 

Ford is going to be manufacturing their old battery and E-CVT hybrid transaxle in USA. This should give competitive advantage over Toyota without the shipping cost or currency uncertainty.

Hopefully, this pushes Toyota to manufacture hybrids in USA as well.

 

Again we get screwed out of a small third row vehicle. The only one available now is the Mazda5, which I know does not sell very well. I wonder if that's because the vehicle has shortcomings, though, or really the market for small 6-7 seater vehicles truly is just abysmal as, presumably, these manufacturers (Toyota/Ford) believe?

 

Hopefully not. The main reason I purchased the Prius over other models was not mainly due to the hybrid system, but due to being one of the few vehicles still built in Japan. Once they start buiding them here, that would be it for me. Not Anti-American, only anti poor manufacturing. Manufacturing tolerances in the US are much wider than in Japan and contributing to premature failure.

 

Definitely interested. The C-max reminds me of a giant Fiesta so I know I like the styling already.

 

that's b/c the MPG difference btw Mazda-5 and minivan (Caravan, Oddyssey, Siena) isn't enough to justify scaling down; 24 vs 20/22/21

If Mazda-5 were getting 40MPG+ they will be selling like hot potatoes.

 

Some articles are saying something like this:

So, it looks like Ford is attempting to market the C-Max as their "Prius", a hybrid-only offering with a look all its own. Informed consumers will know better, of course.

 

this article writer doesnt know what is what... C-Max will be sold with two "engines", I dont see how is that an "spawning prius fighting family".

Ford CEO said that 7 seat C-Max would have been priced too much for US market - 26k... I wonder how much will the hybrid be then?

 

He said they offer a 2.5 I4 and an ecoboost but it is not sure whether the hybrid will have an engine option.

A hybrid ecoboost would be interesting but an expensive proposition.

 

The current EcoBoost engine design sacrifices hwy cruising FE in favor of on-boost HP so it isn't likely to be candidate for a fuel conscious design.

 

Are you thinking of the 3.5L?
The numbers are disappointing for Taurus equipped with it. The AWD only with it doesn't help. However, while looking at the 3.5 equipped F150 specs, I realized the 3.5 ecoboost is actually a V8 replacement. On the F150, it is comparable to the 6.2L. Except for nostaglia, Ford no longer needs to offer a V8 in the F150 with the ecoboost.

Releasing the 3.5 first and using it for performance is disappointing to us, but it makes sense in making a quicker on Ford's investment. The 2.0L, followed by the 1.0L, ecoboost are being introduced.

 

No, the Ford EcoBoost engine always runs in detuned/derated mode except for "on-boost", moderate to hard acceleration, operation. The base/native compression ratio standard for DFI engines is more in the range of 13:1 but Ford runs them at 10:1 to allow "room" for boost to bring the effective CR up to standard.

Without F/awd on the Taurus the EcoBoost engine would need to be "throttled" to prevent constant TC activation during low speed, low gear, acceleration.

Ford could license Toyota's E-VVT-i technique (RX450h) wherein the intake valve closing timing delay is varied to change the effective CR on the fly, 13:1 off-boost and 10:1 for boost.

 

bad reporting? The c-max will come in ice only, hv, and phev trims. It is about the size of a prius v and looks less aerodynamic, so I doubt the hv will have the mileage of a prius. This looks like a strategy of differentiation instead of direct competition other than 1 model the c-max hybrid versus the prius v. The prius phv also will not compete head to head with the c-max energi.

I don't think an ecoboost would be that expensive but lets face it. Mg1 and Mg2 in ford's and toyota's hybrid design are based on the ice. It makes it much more expensive to offer 2 engines in this than one. My bet is on one engine.

 

Unless they already produce both engines (they do) and they have identical mounting points.

I'll bet ecoboost is imported from europe and 2.5 is made in US and already been used on multiple platforms.. yawn

 

If direct injection isn't that expensive but we know the FE gains are there than why isn't it in the Prius?

A: Because its expensive.

Remember Ford's goal is to make hybrids cost the same base price as conventional, putting in an engine even with only a 1k premium would be prohibitive after adding the motors, batteries, invertor and control schema required.

 

Not my point. In both the ford and toyota design the engine is modified for the hybrid and the mg1 and mg2 are sized for the ice. This creates extra development and parts costs. The c-max, and updated fusion, and mkz will likely have the same motors, engine, and power split device. The current fusion uses the 2.5L I4 modified to an atkinson 152 hp. They could swap it to an ecoboost in the redesign, but I doubt volume is high enough to have two different engines and mg1s.

The 1.6L ecoboost in the c-max is currently made in the UK, the 2.0L in spain. The 2.5 L duratec is made in 5 plants around the world and include one in Michigan and one in spain. The current aktinson variant is made in mexico. Ford can move production of some ecoboost 1.6 and 2.0 engines to us plants, but I don't think it matters as the first point trumps production location. The c-max engine is rumored to come from spain, but this could be ecoboost or normally aspirated.

 

But the existing 2.5L Atkinson engine could be easily converted to a Miller cycle engine using an SC(***) and thus could be downsized from 2.5L to ~2L so as to produce the same top end HP, 152.

Throw DFI into the mix and reduce the engine to 1.8L via the higher compression possibility.

*** ICE and A/C driven, combined via a PSD, positive displacement SC, no throttle plate required.