Ford bails out on hybrid promise

Think about the serious problem they've been quietly dealing with. The batteries they use are 2 generations behind what Toyota already uses. They are the "D" cells, which offer less than half the power and have some rather significant thermal limitations. They are what was available in the Original Prius back in 1997.

Toyota overcame those issues by developing the modules and enhancing the energy-density characteristics.

Ford is stuck with their current Sanyo supply contract, who is focused on just increasing current production. No enhancements have been announced. That means they'll slip another generation behind when the new Prius comes out with the new generation of battery in 2 years.

In other words, the Escape-Hybrid is all Ford can offer. Fitting enough battery capacity into a Fusion sedan to make it competitive with Camry-Hybrid is totally unrealistic. Between all the cells and the required liquid cooling system, almost the entire trunk would be consumed. That is very unappealing. So the announcement today that they will not deliver on the "250,000 hybrids per year by 2010" promise isn't a surprise. After all, their 5-year promise back in 2000 to "increase efficiency by 25 percent" was a total disappointment.

 

Wth?? I was really counting on Ford...I mean, c'mon they are using a very similar system to Toyota's. Just 'change' the stupid battery contract, pay it off, bite the bullet and get back into the new tech lithium battery world. Contracts 'go void' all the time, get some lawyers on it, they'll cost a bit, but...Sheesh, what ARE they gonna have for a Prius competitor? When will they, too, have to wake up to the reality of expensive fuel? I see TONS of Explorers on the local lot here. I see NONE on the roads. Hello!!! What does this tell you?

I drove the Escape hybrid over 2 years ago and was impressed enough to recommend it to people. Where the f#$* is a decent MPG sedan to compliment it?? Why is it so hard for domestic mfgs. to see the writing on the wall? Do they NOT live in our world?

I'm hoping Ford doesn't pull a GM and decide to crush cars that have so much potential and future...

Cheers,

Curt.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(john1701a @ Jun 29 2006, 11:30 AM) [snapback]278594[/snapback]</div>

One day John, we're going to get you to click links and read for comprehension. I know we can do this.

Right from the article:

Looks like they're still going to roll out the Fusion/Milan.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Jonnycat26 @ Jun 29 2006, 12:00 PM) [snapback]278643[/snapback]</div>

Since the word COMPETITIVE was clearly not addressed, you obviously didn't. True there is still talk of a hybrid Fusion, but no detail whatsoever... other than a year, which is later than originally promised. Hence the topic.

How many are they actually going to produce? Will it only be a pitiful few hundred per year, like Honda has done with Insight?

What kind of "hybrid" will it actually be... a "full" hybrid, an "assist", or one like GM where they basically just paste an emblem on a traditional vehicle with a bigger battery & starter?

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(john1701a @ Jun 29 2006, 02:05 PM) [snapback]278687[/snapback]</div>

Ford has said that it will be a more advanced version of what's currently in the Fusion. And given Ford's usage of full technology (btw, the ONLY car company that only produces FULL hybrids is Ford), it's surprising that you'd try to drop some "assist" FUD on them.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(JackDodge @ Jun 29 2006, 10:00 AM) [snapback]278580[/snapback]</div>

Can everyone say, "titanic"?

 

When I wanted to buy a new vehicle last year, I wanted a hybrid because I forecast rising gas prices. I went first to my Ford dealer in Tyson's Corner (Kip Killmon actually) where I had purchased two or three cars. I saw a very nice looking Escape Hybrid on the showroom floor. I was told that I could not use the X-plan because Bill Ford would not sell the car on discount plans. Then I learned that Kip wanted a $4K dealer markup on sticker. This meant I was down $6-7K from MSRP just driving out the door. The deal did not go through.

Three months later having completed a move to Michigan, I got my Prius at Bloomfield Toyota (Roger Penske I think) at MSRP. Now I hear Ford is offering discounts or 0% financing or some such thing on the Hybrid Escapes. This is another example of severely misreading the buying public and a profound mistake on Ford's part in marketing, IMO.

 

All this doesn't matter.

ONLY if Ford comes up with a midsize 50+ MPG hatchback with ALL the cool features of the Prius...then makes it cheaper...then watch out.

Me? I'm not holding my breath, but will give credit WHEN (or IF) credit may be due...

Cheers,

Curt.

 

"What I didn't foresee at the time was how rapidly other technologies would evolve," Bill Ford wrote in the e-mail, obtained by The Detroit News.
- Yeah, like how much more advanced newer, non-Ford, hybrid technologies are rapidly evolving.

"Now, I am convinced that the objective we had set earlier to build capacity for 250,000 hybrids at the end of the decade is too narrow to achieve our larger goals of substantially improving fuel economy and CO2 performance."
- He is now convinced that 250,000 people won't buy Fords comparatively mediocre hybrid vehicles.

Bill Ford said the company will now focus more on other fuels like ethanol, clean diesel and bio-diesel, as well as advanced engine and powertrain technologies.
- Of course! Ford can build those vehicles today and hype them all they want . . . with the added benefit that their hands are then washed of the problem. From that point on, it is then up to the driver whether they actually use ethanol or bio-diesel.
As for “now focus more on . . . advanced engine and powertrain technologies.” Oh Sure! As long as it's not a more advanced HYBRID powertrain!

"Our strategy going forward is not to wed ourselves to a single technology, but to manage a more flexible approach to meet our goals for customer needs, environmental impact and shareholder interests," Bill Ford said.
- Nobody was asking you to wed Ford to a single technology. But, if that is the best Ford can do with hybrid technology . . . it really makes me wonder exactly what are Ford's goals for “customer needs, environmental impact and shareholder interests.”
- Would a QUALITY, high mileage, low polluting hybrid meet Ford customers' needs?
- Would a QUALITY, high mileage, low polluting hybrid meet meet Ford's environmental impact goals?
- Would a QUALITY, high mileage, low polluting hybrid meet shareholder expectations?

This is all a bunch of hooey which could have been more concisely summed-up by Bill Ford saying, “We are not capable of competing in the hybrid market.”

In related news: At a press conference today, Kermit the Frog apologized for selling out to the environment. “While taping those commercials, when I would say the line – I guess it is easy being green – all I could see were big green dollar signs floating around in my head. For that, I am sorry and embarrassed,” Kermit said with a quivering voice and tears in his eyes.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Jonnycat26 @ Jun 29 2006, 01:10 PM) [snapback]278690[/snapback]</div>

What a bizarre claim.

Care to explain?

 

This is a sad day for Ford. I was really hoping they would produce a competitive fusion station wagon. If what John says is true that they are stuck on old battery technology then they will be far behind Toyota around 2008.

This is sad. I would like to by a Ford or GM, but I don't believe the answer is e85 alone. I'm not buying another car that doesn't at least partially run on electricity. Toyota's plug-in promise is exactly what I've been hoping for... I want a path to get a way from running with 100 year old technology if the internal combustion engine. The only realistic path, and the only path where I as consumer can "vote" with my money is the hybrid path. To me it looks like my options for now are down to two... Toyota and Honda... And while I like Honda as a manufacturer I don't think their hybrifs is the right long term path. Guess I'm stuck with toyota a little longer :-(

e85 is not publically available and if it was it would still make more sense to make an e85/hybrid. Making an engine run on e85 is really simple.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Sufferin' Prius Envy @ Jun 29 2006, 04:37 PM) [snapback]278771[/snapback]</div>

well said. this is really what it means. I was holding my breath that ford had been working hard on catching up. I guess we see the answer today :-(

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Sufferin' Prius Envy @ Jun 29 2006, 04:37 PM) [snapback]278771[/snapback]</div>

LoL!

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(john1701a @ Jun 29 2006, 06:00 PM) [snapback]278816[/snapback]</div>

Toyota does sell mild hybrids (the crown, for example) overseas. So they sell both assist and full hybrids.

 

Jack Smith, GM chairman: "In 2004, the production for FCEV also will
be completed."

Jac Nasser, Ford President: "We are planning to launch a hybrid version of
this car [P2000] within this year [1998]. We will also make FCEV available in
2004."

Anybody who takes backpedalling by Detroit with any surprise just has not been paying attention. Between their penchant for short term greed, marketing dept run companies and close to bankrupt bottom lines, Detroit is simply out of the running.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Jonnycat26 @ Jun 29 2006, 11:10 AM) [snapback]278690[/snapback]</div>

And will these more advanced hybrid Fusion cars be part of the 250,000 hybrids Ford announced it will NOT build per year by the end of the decade? <_<

"Ford is not abandoning hybrids. The company still plans to introduce gas-electric hybrid versions of the Mazda Tribute sport utility vehicle in 2007 and the Ford Fusion and Mercury Milan sedans in 2008."

Yep, Ford will “introduce†them . . . Heck . . . they already have.

in*tro*duce
Pronunciation Key (ntr-ds, -dys)
VERB. in*tro*duced, in*tro*duc*ing, in*tro*duc*es

1. To present (someone) by name to another in order to establish an acquaintance.
2. To present (a performer or product, for example) to the public for the first time.
3. To bring forward (a plan, for example) for consideration.</span>

I can already see a future Ford announcement:
<span style="color:#3333FF">"Dearborn, MI. Spring 2009:
Ford is proud to announce major breakthroughs in ethanol, clean diesel and bio-diesel designs, and therefor will immediately discontinue production of the Ford Fusion Hybrid in order to concentrate our efforts in bringing these new, exciting innovations to the Ford lineup. In our continuing efforts in creating the most advanced, economical, and environmentally friendly vehicles for our customers, these new technologies will be introduced in the all new, totally redesigned, and very exciting, 2013 Ford Fusion Ethanol/Diesel FUD.â€

Ford does a good enough job of dropping FUD excuses all over themselves.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Tideland Prius @ Jun 29 2006, 07:07 PM) [snapback]278876[/snapback]</div>

That is an unfortunate issue... more so than I realized too. It just seemed weird that a Honda supporter would suddenly speak out for Ford. But then it hit me, they both use "D" cells.

As for Fusion being more advanced, this is the first I've heard of that. So what they heck will they actually be delivering... and how many... and when... and for how much?

 

I am really saddened by this news. Both of my Grandfathers worked for "Old Henry" one on the line and later selling cars and the other as the chief purchasing officer for Ford. I was encouraged by the Ford Hybrid. This is indeed sad news.