"Extra Mild" Hybrid?

more or less its what a gas powered golf cart is.

the starter is a belt drive, but it also acts as an generator to keep the battery charged for running lights, accessories, ect.. but the battery doesn't send any juice back to the starter unless the motor stops running.

 

Saturn offered that technology on a 2007 Green Line Saturn Vue. (the alternator was also the starter with a beefy belt)

Several manufactures now offering stop/start technology which allows for the gas engine to shut off after pulling up to a light and automatically restart when applying the gas.

I wonder if any are using the Saturn Green Line technology or are they just beefing up the starter components to handle the extra cycles?

 

I have 2008 saturn vue green line. calling it a mild hybrid is a joke... but we got it for the HOV exemption Its still a big clunky, heavy SUV, and gets around 20-25 mpg on a good day with a tailwind going down hill

and the engine starter is not used when the SUV "auto stops" it is actually pretty seamless and you barely know that the engine has shutoff or refired...

 

Cost, unwillingness of change, complexity?

1. More components and electronics to add to cost of vehicle
2. Not everyone wants their engine to shut off by itself or may even be scared it won't come back on
3. If the engine is off, so is the a/c and all the other electronics to draw on the battery. In a hybrid, we have electric a/c and everything runs off the HV battery. So we don't have to worry about constant draws off the 12v.

 

think about how many times your conventional starter would have to turn on to crank the engine on a daily basis in stop and go traffic...

I'd say premature starter failure would be in your future...

 

In theory, it makes sense and would be awesome. But yeah, once you start beefing all the components up and adding the complexity needed, you might as well be making the car a hybrid at that point. Honestly, we need to get to the point where at least 30-50% of all car models have a hybrid option. By then, the supply demand and commonality of the technology would make it far easier and cheaper to build and advance the technology.

 

BAS Hybrid - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
was an excuse to wrap a car in hybrid stickers in the hope that consumers would decide hybrids were useless and go back to buying SUVs

Start/Stop: Making the Most of Just Hanging Around - Road & Track

 

I have a C6 Corvette that I roll out on a nice day every once in a while. It looks great, and is scary fast.

I could hardly care about the engine shutting itself off at every stop light. If I'm caught in a traffic jam with it, then of course I'll shut it off manually, which is what I would hope most people would do in any conventional automobile.

This car is nearly the perfect representation of complete impracticality.

 

Delete double post

 

Just about every car review I've read about start/stop other than in a hybrid said they disabled it because it was too jarring and abrupt. I thought it was just pampered reviewers whining but comments from owners concurred with the reviewer.

There is a cost to the technology but the manufacturer cannot brag about better fuel economy because the current EPA tests do not capture the savings.

Mazda has the IELOOP system in the new 3 and 6 that does not involve a big battery in the trunk and is more or less what OP described. This system does improve fuel economy under current EPA tests. Unfortunately, the option is only available on the top of the line models.


iPhone ?

 

My 2009 Civic hybrid would start and stop really abruptly and with a good amount of shaking involved at times. My wife hated it. When we test drove a Prius, the first thing she ever said during the drive was how great it was that the Prius is so quiet and smooth when slowing to a stop and starting from a stop. She was almost turned off at the idea of me getting another hybrid because she didn't like how abrupt the Civic was.

 

GM has eAssist available on the Regal, LaCrosse, & Impala which includes a 115V lion battery that powers a 15-kW electric motor and start-stop technology.

eAssist | GM Technology | GM Fleet

 

I had a 94 Impala SS which I felt was the same. Nice thing was I could at least shlep the family around in relative comfort at the expense of fuel.

I still miss flogging that car at track days... I don' t miss buying tires though....

 

They are common in Europe (most rental cars I've had in recent years have it, even really basic cars - I doubt there is a whole lot of added cost). That said, there is some, and from what I've heard is that on the US cycle stop/start nets no significant improvement, so automakers don't see the benefit.

I do think that we are moving inevitably towards all cars having some sort of stop/start and mild energy recovery system, whether in a battery/flywheel/hydraulics, whatever. It's going to eventually be a necessity to meet emissions standards.

 

I was going to say, partial hybrid, or mild hybrid technology has been tried in various forms with vehicles in the past. Not with very much commercial success.

And unfortunately a lot of times it did result in a poor design, with minimal benefit that seemed primarily to exist to allow GM or Saturn or whatever manufacturer to slap "Hybrid" on a badge, without really creating a vehicle that provided much tangible benefit.

I don't care, I think technology and advancement spreads throughout the whole manufacturing arena over time. So if bits and pieces of "Hybrid" or Electric technology can be crossed over at various levels to improve primarily ICE vehicles, I'm OK with that.

I don't care where the improvement or efficiency comes from...only that it is real and tangible.

This is my own "Personal" approach, but part of the reason I wanted Prius was that if I was going to embrace hybrid technology, then I wanted a vehicle on the upper or high end of Hybrid advantage, which IMO is Gas Mileage efficiency. I did not want a "Hybrid" that only got me 10 miles to the gallon or less more than it's ICE counterpart.

If I was going "Hybrid" I was going "All In".

And I think that is part of the problem with most "Partial" hybrid solutions. If the efficiency benefit isn't great enough, most people will just opt for the simpler, usually cheaper pure ICE alternative.

I have to admit...the same thing applies to Prius. If a Prius only got 35-40 mpg? I would of just kept my Honda Fit, which got 28-32...

I'm willing to embrace any improvement with technology applied going both ways....ICE to Hybrid and/or Hybrid/Electric to ICE....but the tangible benefits have to be great enough in operation to justify the increased complication and the increased cost. And I have to feel the technology was applied for REAL operational benefit, and not just as a marketing ploy, or for a manufacturer to "appear" green.

 

That's right, they call it "micro-hybrid" and virtually is now a standard even on very small city cars. Most sophisticated designs , as in BMW and others, even shows brake regen to recharge the battery, (not quite our battery...)
I do realize in USA the thing is mostly ignored, don't know why. But i do confirm in EU too, many people hates start&stop systems.