Enginer almost non-stop EV mode?

I would say absolutely NOT.

The Enginer system is designed to 'trickle charge' the Prius battery. I don't know the output of the 5KW converter, but the 3KW converter only puts out 10A max. This power flow is nowhere near enough to keep the car in all-EV mode for any length of time.

 

I bought a 2KWH unit in August 2009. It has the 3KW converter. If I hit the EV button immediately after turning on the vehicle and have ~75% SOC on the Prius battery I can travel about 2.5 miles @30-35 mph before the SOC drops below 52% and the ICE is forced on.

 

Hi KirillSp,
MJFrog is correct. But it is much more complicated than this.

I run a more robust 3k converter and get about 5 miles of EV. I do not think that the 5k converter will give too much more.

The Enginer system does not Spoof the Prius computers. So all the Prius computer safeties are still in place. If the ICE is cold or the inverter is hot or the Prius HV battery is hot then the Prius will kick out out of EV mode.

Also, the 5k converter will only give 5k when it is cool. When it heats up it will cut back the current and act more like a 3k converter.

Thanks,
Dan

 

Take Mr. Frog's example. 2.5 miles at 30 mph takes 5 minutes. A 23% SoC drain of the traction battery corresponds to 1.5 amp hours (0.23*6.5), and an average current of 18 amps (1.5*60/5). The 3 kW converter puts out 10 amps for 5 minutes, 0.83 amp hours, i.e. 0.83 amp hours. Per mile, then, (1.5 + 0.833)/2.5 = 0.93 amp hour per mile, and the average current is 28 amps.

Now assume you have the 5 kW converter that outputs 14 amps, and solve for time (ignoring the temperature problem, which I hope gets fixed soon). The converter output 14 amps, and the traction battery provides 14 amps. Time = 1.5 * 60 / 14 = 6.43 minutes. Thus, range now is 30 mph (6.43/60) = 3.22 miles.

Of course, the slower you go, the longer the range will be. "Almost non-stop" is probably around 20 MPH.

 

I have a 5 kW. agree, my last post was entirely back-of-the-envelope and may not represent what one can achieve in real life. One thing the analysis leaves out is the effect of stop and start traffic (traffic jams, stop lights), or elevation change. For example, I can easily go several miles in EV mode from one side of town to the other, but there is a 500 foot elevation drop. I obviously cannot make the return trip in EV mode because of the elevation increase.

However, please do be aware that the 14 amp limit is due to the fact that the battery ECU (or HV ECU?) will throw a triangle code and cut power to the car if the current is higher, under conditions that are not well understood.

 

There aren't that many 5Kw kits out there in the wild yet. Most of them are on backorder. So it is hard to say for sure.

I had the 3 Kw kit in my 2002 Prius, I sold that car and I have a 2008 with a 5Kw kit on backorder. I'll obviously post exact results when it arrives.

As for the 3Kw, I was able to drive 5 miles on pure EV mode once, at a speed of about 30 mph. However, that was pretty flat ground. Typically, I would drive about 2 miles on EV and the engine would kick in for a minute or two, and then go back off, allowing another mile or 2 of EV driving. I made a video about this here:

I'm willing to bet that the 5 Kw converter will be able to handle "almost non-stop EV mode." The key word there is "almost." So, I imagine the engine is going to kick in from time to time, but that overall you will be driving more on EV than on gasoline. Of course, this is obviously a slower speeds, on the highway you can bet the engine is going to be on nearly 100% of the time.

 

Just a note. The 14 amp limit is not in the Gen3 prius (2010 model). I have ran 2 3000W converter for quite a while putting some 24amps into the system. With 2 3000W converter I can maintain a 25 mile slight downhill drive in pure electric mode at about 40 to 45 mph if the weather is not too cold, my problem being that engine temp will kick me out of electric mode if I am stopped at a red light.

 

I guess you need a temperature hack?

 

I have a May 10 vintage 5kW converter in my system installed in a 2007 Prius. You have to work REALLY hard to get all electric mode. I once made a round trip out to lunch and back (7 miles) without the gas engine ever starting. But, all the planets need to be in alignment for that to happen. Pardon my droning, but here's a description of the planet alignment necessary.

1. You need to ensure that the Toyota HV battery is at a very high state of charge. 70-80% works well. A Scangauge is probably the best way to put a reliable number on the actual state of charge. If you overcharge the HV, the gas engine will start to burn off the extra charge. Bzzzzt. EV mode fail.

2. The Toyota HV battery pack must be below 114oF and must stay there for you to have access to the EV mode function built into the Prius software. If you exceed 114, Bzzzzt, EV mode fail.

3. When you start the car and you do not have an annunciator light telling you that you that you are in EV mode, then you must play close attention that you actually engaged EV mode in the first few seconds before the ICE starts in order to prevent the ICE from starting and going through its normal warmup cycle. Not hitting the EV mode button after powering up the Prius and before the ICE starts will allow the ICE to start. Bzzzt. EV mode fail.

4. If all of the above are met you may begin to accelerate in EV mode. If you hit the pedal too hard, your gas engine will ignite. Bzzzzt. EV mode fail.

5. Presuming you got off to a gentle start, you cannot exceed 34 MPH otherwise your gas engine starts and goes through its warmup which you must wait to complete before EV mode is accessible again. It is VERY difficult to keep your speed below 34 MPH. Once you crack 34, bzzzzt, EV mode fail.

6. Now that all conditions are met and you are driving at 33 MPH, you will find that the HV battery pack depletes at a faster rate than the PHEV/Enginer refills it. So, once your SOC drops below 55% (I think), the gas engine ignites to recharge the HV. Bzzzt. EV mode fail.

7. Providing that you can meet all the above conditions AND find enough dwell time at lights or running at 15 to 20 MPH you can have as much EV mode as you like for about 40 minutes before you use up all the charge in the 4kWh battery.

8. By this point, I've been exercising the HV more than usual and the sun is starting to warm things up, so invariably I lose EV mode because the Toyota battery has hit its 114oF threshold.

I realize I'm being a bit silly, but the point is that it is not easy to hit all the requirements to stay in EV mode for the entirety of a trip. The Enginer does not make your car an electric vehicle. But, if everything is working well and you have the ability to drive your Prius in a manner where you can routinely get 52 or so MPG, then the 4kWh system should bump this to 80+ MPG. That's what the Enginer can do.

 

my question; how many are in a position of "almost non-stop" driving at street speeds?

i know my area well enough that i have several roads that are 35-40 mph and limited traffic control, but still have several stops. wouldnt you be able to recoup some charge every time you coast, adjust for slower traffic or congestion?

but at 25-30 mph streets, those are usually highly controlled, much busier, etc. i could easily see going a much longer way in all EV based on that fact alone

 

While everything you said is true, I would point out that my only enginer driving experience so far has been with the 2002 Prius I had. It had NO EV BUTTON AT ALL. Despite that, after the engine warmup period of 2-3 minutes or so, the car would drop into EV mode and I could routinely drive 40 mph or better on flat streets without the engine ever coming on for miles at a time. Granted, I had to be gentle on the throttle otherwise the engine would kick on.

It would certainly have been better if the Prius software would allow EV mode up to 40 mph or more, but oh well. I guess there is always the PICC system for that, if you have the cash.

 

I wonder if we can beef up the air flow through the stock HV pack to keep the temperature down below 114F ? especially now that the outside air is cooler than 90F.

 

how does the PICC and Power-In-Supply system turn the ICEngine off ? I guess it's an IProperty.

 

I've seen comments that some people have rigged the fan back there to stay on all of the time. That will probably work being that the Prius doesn't usually turn the fan on until it gets really hot.

When I get my Enginer kit, I'm going to be doing some investigation as to how I might pump extra air through the enginer kit, especially the DC-DC converter to try to keep it cooler so that it can output more current.

 

I have to agree with Octane on this one. It is very difficult to maintain all EV driving with the Enginer kit. First of all neither the Prius no the Enginer kit are designed to do so. Second, maintaining speed on an incline is extremely difficult to do without engaging the ICE. Third, the Enginer converter doesn't have to output to significantly raise SOC when stopped at a traffic light or gliding. BTW, I have the same generation of kit as Octane in a 2004.

 

I would imagine. Also, I believe that I saw somewhere that Toyota substantially increased the cooling of the HV battery on their factory plug-ins which vindicated our observations of having a real issue with heat.