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Engine stopped, throttle body blamed. Options?

Discussion in 'Gen 2 Prius Care, Maintenance and Troubleshooting' started by BrentV, Feb 17, 2014.

  1. BrentV

    BrentV Junior Member

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    All,

    New here, so please forgive me if this has already been asked and answered. I've poked around the existing threads but didn't see anything similar.

    2007 Prius Gen II, about 240,000 miles, mostly all highway. Averaging about 45mpg total; closer to 40mpg in the winter, and 50mpg in the summer. Usually on cruise control at 70-75 mph.

    Driving to work the other day when the engine just stopped and the check engine light and red triangle came on. I was coming around a curve doing about 40mph, and it was about 25 degrees F outside.

    The electric motor and system was still operating, so I headed home as far as I could before the car stopped providing power to the wheels. I pulled over and turned it off. Every time I tried to restart the car (I gave it a few minutes between restarts), it would respond and the gas engine would start, but only for a moment.

    After 10 minutes and a few attempts, the gas engine finally stayed on, so I crept along at 20mph for a couple of miles to a parking lot. From there it was towed to the local Toyota dealer where I've done business.

    Today the dealer tells me that the codes they're getting seem to point to a throttle body problem. It'll cost me $1,200, parts & labor. Because it's a big number, they're going to check with Toyota to verify it.

    I didn't think to ask what codes; this is new to me. We got the car used in 2009 with 12k miles on it and it's run like a top. I've only had to change the oil, put new tires on, and do the brakes once. The water pump recall was done some time ago.

    One two other occasions I can remember (many months ago), I've had the red triangle come on momentarily while rounding that very same curve at that speed (always in the morning, and there's always a little body roll), but usually it goes off within a few seconds and there's no noticable problem. The dealer thought it might have been due to the oil maintenance light, which hadn't been reset. This time as well, the maintenance light hadn't been reset the last time the oil was changed.

    I did a few searches on the web, and here. No hits related to replacing the throttle body, but quite a few about cleaning it. Could this be a simple, $75 cleaning job (or $5 if I did it myself), or is there a significant problem here?

    Any suggestions would be much appreciated. I don't have $1,200 just lying around...

    BrentV
     
  2. JC91006

    JC91006 Senior Member

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    At 240k and you've only done oil changes as maintenance? This engine is known to burn some oil at high mileage, have you ever checked the oil level between oil changes? When was the last oil change, miles?

    Cleaning the throttle body is easy, I don't think it's quite that simple. You should ask the dealer for the dtc codes and post them here, that will give you an idea of the problem.

    I would really hesitate in putting a lot of money in this car. Without proper maintenance and 240k miles, This car can be a money pit real fast.

    SM-N900P ?
     
  3. PriusGuy32

    PriusGuy32 Prius Driver Extraordinaire

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    The red triangle illuminating around curves is what is troubling; that usually indicates a low engine oil level, and when you go around a curve, the engine oil pump pickup sucks air, thus resulting in a loss of engine oil pressure and illuminating some lights. Once you get out of the curve, the light goes off.

    Like JC91006 said - at 245,000 miles, to not be burning oil in a Gen2 would be akin to water not being wet.

    Im betting #1, your throttle body is disgustingly dirty, if its never been cleaned in 245k miles and may have actually rusted/corroded/gummed up and need replacement AND you are consuming oil enough inasmuch that around curves you are tripping the low engine oil pressure circuit.
     
  4. kammssss

    kammssss Member

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    Yep...definitely check the oil. I got 259k on mines, and it burns about 1.5qt every 4-5k.
     
  5. BrentV

    BrentV Junior Member

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    Thanks for the feedback folks. I probably should've clarified that this car has had all of the manufacturer-recommended service, I've just never had any major component failure.

    The oil was last changed about 2k miles ago, and I generally go 5k-6k miles between changes. I've always used synthetic.

    So I asked the dealer about oil consumption on a high mileage Prius. They've not seen it as a common problem, but acknowledged that it could happen. That said; my car exhibits no signs of burning oil, although the sump theory that PriusGuy32 suggested sounds viable. I distinctly remember that I was overdue for an oil change when I got one of those red triangle warnings.

    The dealer gave me two codes, 2103 and 2111. They said one was the throttle high - stuck open - and the other was the throttle stuck closed. I asked also about cleaning the throttle body vs. replacing it, and they reiterated that they're consulting with Toyota to see if there are other things that could be causing these readings and other potential solutions to the problem.
     
  6. edthefox5

    edthefox5 Senior Member

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    Usually since the tb has never been cleaned the butterfly is bronze and the edge gets corroded and will not move freely in the tb bore. The Prius like most modern cars needs a good tb cleaning at least every 30K. This butterfly is not replaceable so entire tb must be replaced. That and since its never been serviced the bore is probably a mess too.

    To bad about manufacturer recommended service as they recommend the trans fluid is a lifetime fluid. Your way past what Toyota calculated as life. Tough little car.

    Momentary engine light means the engine oil is so low the sump is going dry on corners and sucking air losing oil pressure. Your Prius now will eat alot of oil between oil changes. It starts out minor oil loss but if you don't keep after it and check oil every gas fill up it turns into what your seeing. Too late. Oil rings are scuffed.

    Don't put alot of money into this car.
     
  7. Easy Rider

    Easy Rider Active Member

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    No where in that entire reply did you actually SAY that you have been checking the actual oil level
    between changes. Have you ??

    As for the throttle body thing, I agree with the other replies that the car might not be worth a $1200 investment but I also think a good cleaning for $100 or so might be a good gamble.

    And if you DO decide to do the $1200 throttle body replacement, INSIST on a guarantee.
    That is, they keep the old one and if that doesn't fix the problem, they put the old one back on and
    refund most of your money.

    If this is going to be a gamble, they should be gambling with THEIR money and not yours.
     
    PriusGuy32 likes this.
  8. edthefox5

    edthefox5 Senior Member

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  9. PriusGuy32

    PriusGuy32 Prius Driver Extraordinaire

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    Brent, the question isnt so much as to who changes your oil or how many miles you can achieve between changes -but- how often are you, yourself, manually checking the oil level?

    On a Gen2 with that mileage, you should be checking the oil level at least once a week. Worst case scenario - every 1000 miles tops. I guarantee you the car is consuming oil. Its like betting against the sun rising every morning, lol.
     
    edthefox5 likes this.
  10. BrentV

    BrentV Junior Member

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    Easy Rider...No, never checked the oil between changes. We've taken care of the car and it never exhibited any bad behavior until now, so I made an (obivously bad) assumption that all was well.

    Funny you should mention the guarantee. When they told me $1200, I specifically asked if they'd refund my money if the problem wasn't fixed. Can't remember if that was before or after they said they were calling Toyota, but with my additional questions they might be a little more thorough.

    edthefox5...here are the codes (below) the dealer gave me. The other tests will have to wait until I get the car back from the dealer.

    P2111
    Possible causes
    - Throttle Body Plate Binding
    - Faulty Throttle Actuator
    - Throttle Actuator harness is open or shorted
    - Throttle Actuator circuit poor electrical connection
    When is the code detected?
    Throttle valve locked during Engine Control Module (ECM) order to close

    Possible symptoms
    - Engine Light ON (or Service Engine Soon Warning Light)

    P2111 Toyota Description
    The throttle actuator is operated by the Engine Control Module (ECM) and it opens and closes the throttle valve using gears. The opening angle of the throttle valve is detected by the throttle position sensor, which is mounted on the throttle body. The throttle position sensor provides feedback to the ECM to control the throttle actuator and set the throttle valve angle in response to driver inputs.

    P2103
    Possible causes
    - Faulty Throttle Control Motor Relay
    - Throttle Control Motor Relay harness is short
    - Throttle Control Motor Relay circuit poor electrical connection
    Possible symptoms
    - Engine Light ON (or Service Engine Soon Warning Light)

    P2103 Description
    Power supply for the throttle control motor is provided to the Engine Control Module (ECM) via throttle control motor relay. The throttle control motor relay is ON/OFF controlled by the ECM. When the ignition switch is turned ON, the ECM sends an ON signal to throttle control motor relay and battery voltage is provided to the ECM. When the ignition switch is turned OFF, the ECM sends an OFF signal to throttle control motor relay and battery voltage is not provided to the ECM.
     
  11. Patrick Wong

    Patrick Wong DIY Enthusiast

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    I agree with the other posters who assert it is necessary to regularly check the engine oil level, regarding the triangle warning light coming on during turns. If in fact the engine oil level is low, it is at least 2 quarts low for this to happen. That is a pretty big drop considering engine oil capacity is 3.9 quarts.

    Regarding the throttle body, it wouldn't hurt to try cleaning it first. If replacement is necessary, one alternative would be to install a used unit to substantially reduce the repair cost. autobeyours.com would be a good source for a used part.
     
    PriusGuy32 likes this.
  12. Massageguy

    Massageguy Junior Member

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    OMG, I'm almost having an identical problem as the poster!! I change my oil, and thought I was doing a good job checking the oil, but not nearly as much as the other posters recommend. And I had no idea about a throttle body clean.
     
  13. edthefox5

    edthefox5 Senior Member

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    Since the tb is fly by wire the tb butterfly is opened and closed by a little motor. it doesn't take much to stall that motor due to a corroed butterfly edge. The engine will stall out. This gunk comes from the pcv valve which dumps out in the tb right above the butterfly. The gunk is much worse if you use dino oil and not synthetic. if you getting your cars oil changed at the dealer for cheap your getting the worse oil on the planet.
    And its important to keep the spring on the end of the butterfly axle lubricated.
    The tb is under alot of duress. The engine coolant is also routed into and out of it so its at 190+ F degree temps also so throw in greasy gunk and you have a party.
    When u check the engine oil due it first thing in the am before you start the car. The Prius engine has a complicated oil driven timing mechanism to the camshaft that uses oil pressure to advance the timing. Its the VVT section of the motor and it stores quite a bit of oil so it takes a long time to drain back to the pan. if you pull into a gas station and open the hood and check the oil itl will read much lower than it actually is.
    I check the oil on all my cars first thing every saturday.
     
  14. insaner

    insaner Junior Member

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    I had the same problem with the same codes. Even the red triangle and then fine for a while on restart. My temp light was also coming on. Dealer recommended new throttle body for same price as yours. I bought one for $100 at a junkyard and put it on myself. Easy job. 3 hoses and 4 bolts after you get the air box off. Car has run fine since.
     
    arthur92710 likes this.