1. Attachments are working again! Check out this thread for more details and to report any other bugs.

E0 Fuel and its Benefits (So Far)

Discussion in 'Prius c Fuel Economy' started by steveoknievo, Sep 20, 2013.

  1. steveoknievo

    steveoknievo Member

    Joined:
    Dec 4, 2012
    225
    79
    17
    Location:
    Florida
    Vehicle:
    2012 Prius c
    Model:
    Three
    Some of you may be aware that I am using E0 fuel in my 2012 Prius C 3. This is part of an ongoing experiment to see which is more efficient, and ultimately, which is more economical. E0 fuel is a bit more expensive than the conventional corn based E10, and I wanted to see if the increased cost was worth it. Using Fuelly to keep track of all data related to fuel economy I decided to compare the costs of E0 and E10.

    Here's what I've got so far. I only have 5 complete fuel ups with E0 fuel so that was my limiting factor in the number of fuel ups per each. I simply used the data on my Fuelly page for all of the rough stuff. This includes Miles, Gallons to fill up, MPG, Price per Gallon, and Cost per Tank. I did omit one of my E10 fuel ups as the price was skewed due to the transition between E10 and E0. Other than that I simply used the five most recent E10 fill ups, and the five most recent E0 fuel ups for my data.
    Fuel Comparisons.jpg
    Over the course of 5 fuel ups for each you can see the stats broken down several ways. I did this in an identical manner for each: Total, E0, and E10. You can see using E0 fuel has increased my mileage by 8 miles per gallon. That's a pretty decent amount in my opinion! All this while cost is in the same ballpark as E10 fuel, with a price difference of $0.0044/mile (on average) I dare say the cost isn't worth worrying about!

    So, tell me what you think? What can I do better to make this data more accurate? Note: All of these are just my typical driving to school/work/home etc. None of the tanks I've driven have been for the sole purpose of mileage.

    Just in case you're wondering: Tire Pressure is checked biweekly and kept at 44/42. I do use the AC during the day, mornings are pleasant and the AC just isn't needed, so I roll with the windows down. I use Pulse and Glide when I can (traffic and common sense permitting) and I extend my glides as long as possible using the traction battery when under 40ish MPH. I've tried to be as consistent as possible with all of these fill-ups. I have always used the same pump (except when going from E10 to E0 of course) and I always pump with the lowest auto-dispense setting on said pump until first cutoff. For S's and G's I have also been logging the Indicated MPG's on the screen in the car, and have noticed they are always in the ballpark of +2MPG's over calculated mileage.

    Also for what it's worth, all E10 fuel was 87 Octane. All E0 fuel was 90 Octane. Not sure what weight if any that holds in these results, but it's a data point I thought I'd make you aware of.
     
    minkus and ftl like this.
  2. dbcassidy

    dbcassidy Toyota Hybrid Nation, 8 Million Strong

    Joined:
    May 13, 2008
    1,581
    290
    3
    Location:
    Middlesex County, MA
    Vehicle:
    2008 Prius
    Model:
    Two
    It is very good on the E0, time to abolish the heavily subsidized E10.

    Just think crops can go back to growing corn for human / animal consumption rather than in gas tanks!

    DBCassidy
     
  3. steveoknievo

    steveoknievo Member

    Joined:
    Dec 4, 2012
    225
    79
    17
    Location:
    Florida
    Vehicle:
    2012 Prius c
    Model:
    Three
    No kidding. This would be great. Meat prices would go down, corn prices would go down, anything with corn in it, prices would all go down. Doesn't make sense to take your food sources, and burn them (literally).
     
  4. Andyprius1

    Andyprius1 Senior Member

    Joined:
    Feb 4, 2013
    2,327
    859
    1
    Location:
    Cool CA
    Vehicle:
    2017 Prius Prime
    Model:
    Plug-in Base
    Agree totally, fresh corn on the cob is probably one of the more nutritious and used to be the cheapest. For people with low incomes, this was one of their staples. It is a Sin, a tragedy against nature what is being done....yet the subject is very seldom broached by our disinterested representatives and senators. Compound this with GMO seeds by Monsanto and the Whole situation is a outrage.
     
  5. dbcassidy

    dbcassidy Toyota Hybrid Nation, 8 Million Strong

    Joined:
    May 13, 2008
    1,581
    290
    3
    Location:
    Middlesex County, MA
    Vehicle:
    2008 Prius
    Model:
    Two
    IIRC, the consumer price index (CPI) measures the cost of living (IE: inflation). The cost of energy and food are excluded from this calculation.

    So, if we exclude the above, we have low inflation - NOT!

    DBCassidy
     
    Andyprius1 likes this.
  6. john1701a

    john1701a Prius Guru

    Joined:
    Jan 6, 2004
    12,766
    5,251
    57
    Location:
    Minnesota
    Vehicle:
    2017 Prius Prime
    Model:
    Prime Advanced
    Don't forget about the plant opening up early next year that will be using the cob part of the corn to create ethanol. We also have ethanol plants here powered by waste material, like wood scraps. Elsewhere, there is a plant that uses the peel of the orange as a substitute for the source. So prior to the subsidies expiring, the remaining funds should be directed to facilities like that.
     
    Andyprius1 likes this.
  7. steveoknievo

    steveoknievo Member

    Joined:
    Dec 4, 2012
    225
    79
    17
    Location:
    Florida
    Vehicle:
    2012 Prius c
    Model:
    Three
    I don't really see the attraction.. Why put something in your fuel that causes it to be less efficient? If you get better mileage without ethanol, you use less fuel.. Same with the emissions stuff nowadays. Older cars got better mileage without it, but were "more harmful." I would think if your car is more efficient without that stuff it would put less emissions into the air.. I just don't get why they make the fuel less efficient instead of more efficient, that way all cars make the most of what they burn.. But what do I know?
     
    Andyprius1 likes this.
  8. john1701a

    john1701a Prius Guru

    Joined:
    Jan 6, 2004
    12,766
    5,251
    57
    Location:
    Minnesota
    Vehicle:
    2017 Prius Prime
    Model:
    Prime Advanced
    More efficient does not equate to being cleaner. Smog and Carbon emissions are quite different. There's also the need to advance renewable fuels.
     
    Andyprius1 likes this.
  9. johnhlong

    johnhlong Junior Member

    Joined:
    Aug 30, 2013
    89
    29
    0
    Location:
    East Carbon, Utah, USA
    Vehicle:
    2013 Prius c
    Model:
    Two

    Very interesting.

    Any chance you can run 5 tanks of E10, 90 Octane?

    That might show if the improvement was due to Octane boost or switching to E0.

    As I read your results, you get better MPG with E0 but it is more economical to use E10.



    John
     
  10. I am glad you did this analysis. I am a bit surprised that the E0 station near you is so expensive. I use a New England brand name gas; its highest grade fuel Octane 91 is E0. It's like $3.86/gal today (usually it's $3.93--- win!), compared to like $3.61 for Octane 87 w/E10. Even if E0 is more expensive (and yes I would be willing to pay as much as you are for E0) I still think that your fuel system is better off without ethanol in it.
     
    steveoknievo likes this.
  11. JimboPalmer

    JimboPalmer Tsar of all the Rushers

    Joined:
    Apr 14, 2009
    12,470
    6,871
    2
    Location:
    Greenwood MS USA
    Vehicle:
    2012 Prius v wagon
    Model:
    Three
    True, but you do use less OIL. 10% of your fuel was not oil. And he is spending less per mile with ethanol.
     
  12. grand total

    grand total Member

    Joined:
    Sep 9, 2007
    154
    14
    0
    Location:
    ON, Canada
    Vehicle:
    Other Hybrid
    Model:
    N/A
    Any improvement or otherwise is not due to using gas with a difference octane rating. The octane rating is a measure of the fuel's ability to resist knocking and does not relate to any significant difference in energy content of the fuel.
     
  13. dbcassidy

    dbcassidy Toyota Hybrid Nation, 8 Million Strong

    Joined:
    May 13, 2008
    1,581
    290
    3
    Location:
    Middlesex County, MA
    Vehicle:
    2008 Prius
    Model:
    Two
    10% of your fuel required diesel fuel, fertilizer, water (a lot of these 3) in order to appear at the fuel pump.

    DBCassidy
     
    steveoknievo and citroenjohn like this.
  14. citroenjohn

    citroenjohn Active Member

    Joined:
    Mar 26, 2013
    139
    103
    0
    Location:
    Mid-Michigan
    Vehicle:
    2013 Prius c
    Model:
    Two
    Some are suggesting that all the fertilizer run off is contributing to dead zones in the Gulf of Mexico. I'd gladly use 100% oil based gasoline if I could get it. My C2 would last longer which seems to me helps the environment as I wouldn't have to buy so many new cars during my lifetime. I'm assuming auto plant have emissions. Ethanol is mostly a political issue.
     
  15. steveoknievo

    steveoknievo Member

    Joined:
    Dec 4, 2012
    225
    79
    17
    Location:
    Florida
    Vehicle:
    2012 Prius c
    Model:
    Three
    If I could find a station that has it, I would. Here they go from 87 to 89, then 91. But as was stated earlier, the octane is just a rating of resistance to early combustion. I was simply stating the discrepancy between the two fuels in my first post because they are different, and the car manual states the use of 87 octane is recommended.

    If I could have my way, I'd run 87 octane E0 fuel. But it doesn't work that way unfortunately.

    Yes indeed it is less. $0.0044/mile less. To me, the difference doesn't equate the use of E10 over E0, especially considering the drawbacks of ethanol. Me? I just chock the additional less-than-half-a-penny per mile as a convenience thing.. Don't need to go to the gas station as often, plus it's better for the vehicle in the long run.

    I am also planning on more testing once I receive a Scangauge. I am curious to see what horsepower differences E0 fuel has over E10. I feel like the car runs better, but can't really back it up with any proof as of yet. I think it would be extremely neat to experiment with the car on a Dyno.

    What I'm not understanding is why I have an increase of 8 MPG's with Ethanol free fuel. General consensus is that it only boasts a 2% increase in mileage which equates to 1.6 MPG's at best.. So there is something going on. The only thing I can think of that may artificially increase this number is the fact that my most recent tanks have been E0 fuel, whereas the E10 tanks are all with less seat time (and therefore less experience and familiarity) with the car.. I don't really know if this plays a big role but I would like to think the more I am behind the wheel of my Prius C the better I get at managing it and knowing how it works. More testing in the works. I just wanted to put this data out there to see what you all thought and to see what changes I should make to my system.
     
  16. JimboPalmer

    JimboPalmer Tsar of all the Rushers

    Joined:
    Apr 14, 2009
    12,470
    6,871
    2
    Location:
    Greenwood MS USA
    Vehicle:
    2012 Prius v wagon
    Model:
    Three
    It is not a double blind test. It is not even a blind test.
     
    steveoknievo likes this.
  17. wjtracy

    wjtracy Senior Member

    Joined:
    Sep 19, 2006
    11,340
    3,596
    1
    Location:
    Northern VA (NoVA)
    Vehicle:
    Other Hybrid
    Model:
    N/A
    This gets into some points discussed earlier in other threads...your results are actually similar to EPA measuring 50 MPG with E0 test fuel vs. Consumer Reports saying 44 MPG with E10 for a Prius (think I got the numbers correct). We talked about some of the reasons and there is no solid answer due to lack of scientific data. Congress has no intent to develop data for E0 when they are trying to put even more alternate fuels in your gas.