Featured Dropping hybrids . . . maybe

Saw that. I reckon I'll be pushing up daisies before Petrol, Diesel and Hybrids aren't still mainstream fuel sources.

 

It was an inevitable outcome for GM. With such heavy dependence on tax-credits, only resulting in low-volume conquest sales, Volt was doomed.

The most compelling evidence of that upcoming failure to reach mainstream consumers was how much Volt enthusiasts would fight Prius. Making it the scapegoat for Volt's inability to draw appeal from GM's own loyal customers was a dead-giveaway target audience was the biggest issue... because we see on a regular basis how well Toyota found their following.

Looking beyond GM's small, expensive offering left a vast nothing. To make Trax a plug-in hybrid would spell the end to the highly profitable SUV choices necessary for survival. Dealers needed Equniox and the new Blazer for their sustaining their business. The larger SUVs, like Traverse and Tahoe, would be harder over time to sell as "car" alternatives. That meant the only move forward would be pure electric. It would be different enough to keep things from completely falling apart as pressure to address climate & petroleum issues grew.

Watch as desperations grows. Notice how there is no detail whatsoever about the upcoming "20 models" leaves you wondering what that actually means. Absence of an expectation being set for volume or pricing is reason for serious concern. That clue about no solid goal or direction indicates chaotic times to come.

 

I can't really understand GM - they seem to have a mindset that (except for Corvette maybe) that niche isn't worth bothering with. Volt really was ready for a new design, not just change lights and grille.

It was a well accepted vehicle - here it had rave reviews - with the rider "much too expensive". Here Volt was close to $70,000 for the top model when it was here - and they just sat on dealer's floors. 4 seats meant I didn't even bother with a test-drive.

But - EVs are going to be niche for GM initially. I don't understand why they don't do something like IONIQ, build an EV SUV or Crossover which can also be sold as a Plug-In and a Hybrid. That way, they'll score no matter which way the fickle market decides to move.

 

Bingo.

This is GM and VW pointing to the stands and hoping they hit a home run. High risk, high reward.

 

follow the money...

 

GM wants Congress to mandate EV's so that will make their strategy work.
They want to go back to Obama impossible CAFE mandates and give auotmakers huge CAFE credits for selling BEVs.
Many of Presidential candidates are saying same thing as CARB a few years ago: we must do "whatever it takes" to make BEV a success. So if GM and Telsa can hold out a few more years, they may get the mandates they want.

 

Honda is also doubling down on compliance cars and removing “advanced “ cars from many markets.


Given the punitive tax structures taking root where non plug in hybrids and even cars with start stop pay exorbitant fees for the privilege of gaining 1mpg
I don’t think standard hybrids are long for this world.

Even BEVs are starting to loose year over year sales.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/insideevs.com/news/363473/july-2019-ev-sales-recap/amp/

I’m already making plans to convert all my cars (including my Insight) to permanent non expiring collector plates to avoid the recent “bipartisan “ Prius tax in my state.

My Volt May face early retirement as I think the fact that fees have increased twice in 8 months means there are more to come
(As the proposal doesn’t fix the problem)

 

Hybrid is vague. Does it mean no hybrids at all, or will they offer PHEVs?
Related. Continental is cutting back on engine parts development. Auto Supplier Continental Slams Brakes on Engine Parts Amid Shift to Electric - WSJ

The Volt died because the factory it was being assembled atwas closing, and it was closing because the traditional cars made there weren't selling and were being cancelled. A Voltec crossover is possible. China is getting a Buick badged one, along with a sedan.

GM is out of Europe, which leaves China and America as the major markets for plug ins. Plain hybrids will be needed for China's mandate, since I don't see them getting by with just plug ins, but mild hybrids are acceptable for that. America has cheap gas. A platform that supports the different drive trains, like the Ioniq, is possible, but I don't see options being available in the US. EPA certification is expensive; why pay for a plain hybrid with low expected sales. Doing a BEV right really requires a dedicated platform, which won't support an ICE beyond something like an i3 REx.

Then the trade war is making a mess of things in terms how GM could set up the logistics for car for both China and the US.

What was impossible about the targets? Many efficient cars available today exceed them.

 

It makes no sense to me that Toyota does not have a plugin and an all electric Prius planned for the next generation. The Tundra is the only Japanese pickup truck that can make Detroit nervous. The Tesla is powered by Panasonic batteries. I personally find it funny when gas prices drop, people abandon hybrid cars and maybe even electric cars. There was this stereotype that environmentalists drive a Prius in America.

 

Automakers have a really long lead time beucase they have certain set chassis designs and that must fit for many years and is hard to change. I wish Toyota would design a whole new slightly bigger car for Prime designed around the idea of hiding the 8-kwhr battery like Prius did for hybrds, and keep the cargo space. But what I would like to see and Toyota's ability to adapt their manufacturing line and fundamental design is not the same thing.

 

Not sure what you mean. That you'd like to see a hybrid, plug-in hybrid and all-electric version of the Prius, in probably 2022?

I would think they look at the numbers, look to the future, and make a decision that'll keep them in the black. They're not obligated to make electrics and plug-ins, if the numbers don't justify it.

I'm interested in what sort of hybrid Prius is coming. Not holding my breath though.

 

Well, hybrid doesn't have to include plug in. I think VW has put out more PHEVs than hybrids at this point. So I have been taking the no hybrid statement to mean ones without a plug.

 

Circular logic is evidence of something gone awry. In this case, it was the fact that Volt sales were supposed to grow to the level of takeover. The goal was for Volt to become the replacement. Production of that traditional car was expected to end anyway. Volt failed to achieve that.

For 12 years, we had to put up with claims of "vastly superior" technology from GM becoming the dominant force in efficiency sales. This followed the disasterous hybrid offering known as Two-Mode. We were besieged with the message of needing to patiently wait for this new plug-in hybrid technology to crush Toyota. I endured countless attacks stating my concern for GM's expensive & inefficient were unfounded, just an effort to save the reputation of Prius.

Needless to say, any attempt to portray a false past will be called out. Volt died because GM didn't really want to sell it. Why would any automaker continue on with such expensive & inefficient technology... especially seeing how well Toyota is setting the stage for plug-in hybrids?

Looking back at how hostile Volt defenders became just 6 months ago, absolutely desperate to provide damage-control for GM by pushing a narrative of Toyota "falling behind" so much, the automaker may never recover. We now see both Prius & Corolla have PHV models and its looking like one for RAV4 is one the way.

19 years of that nonsense from those hoping to undermine Toyota accomplished what?

 

I'm not opposed to Congress stepping up in the US (and likely needs to if we want to make progress on Climate Change). However, it needs to be a 3-pronged strategy:

• Cranked up CAFE standards that automatically ratchet up every 5-10 years
• Expand and make permanent the battery tax credit (i.e. make BEVs cost-equal to ICEs and get rid of the expiration)
• New tax credit for buying/installing charging stations/EVSEs

 

is that bev's, or plug ins?

 

Keep in mind, I am not saying I agree with Congress mandating E10 ethanol and BEV, that's just how I see it going.