Do we owe the people of Iraq an apology?

Ummmm...... yes.

 

I think we do too. Granted, Iraq was not heaven before we invaded, but I don't think anyone can say that we've made a measurable improvement.

 

An apology? Sorry about all the dead people, bombing the s**t out of your country, the looted museums, the destroyed infrastructure...

It seems like a good start, though, and a step in the right direction. I happened to turn on the TV and saw * talking about "cut and run" versus "winning", and honestly, I have no idea what "winning" would mean. After all, if they have democracy and vote in a theocracy (like we'd let *that* happen), would that be victory?

But I digress.

Yes, I guess we do.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(jared2 @ Oct 31 2006, 09:25 AM) [snapback]341271[/snapback]</div>

Coming to a state near you! Get yer gated community, bullet proof hummer and hired help to go 'out there' and do your shopping for you 'cause it's dangerous once you leave the compound'. Wanna glimpse of the future? Go to any third world country where there is a huge discrepency between the very poor and the very rich, and you can observe your future.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(jared2 @ Oct 31 2006, 09:57 AM) [snapback]341220[/snapback]</div>

Absolutely - for not acting quicker. Take a pick or you can go for all of them...

You can start by apolgizing to the hundreds of thousands of Iraqi's we have pulled from mass graves and their families.
You can start by apologizing to the 100,000+ Kurds he used WMD's on to slaughter.
You can start by apoligizing to the Kuwaiti's he slaughtered during his invasion of Kuwait.
You can start by apologizing to the those that we will never find who were tortured and butchered.
You can start by apologizing to all the women that were raped and tortured.
You can start by apologizing to the French and the UN for interupting the free flow of BILLIONS of $'s in the worlds largest scandal that they were receiving from Saddam.
You can start by apologizing to the Marshland Arabs who Saddam destroyed.
You can apologize to the environmentalists when Saddam lit the oil fields ablaze during his unprovoked iinvasion of Kuwait.
You can apologize to the Israeli's who were casitgated for destroying Saddam's nuclear reactor in 1981 probably saving the world from greater catastrophy.
You can apologize to the families of loved ones who gave their lives in the service of this great country fighting a war to provide others with freedom from oppression/tyranny who have suffered through the idiocies of their fellow countrymen/woman.
You can apologize to those who voted for elected representatives who shamelessly change their points of view based on prevailing political winds.
You can apologize to our soldiers who are in harms way for those Americans who willingly or not escalate the probabilities of them getting wounded or killed.
You can apologize for those who have given away state secrets who have increased the dangers faced not only by our soldiers but also by American civilians (one example can be found in the form of the NY Times publishing the article on the SWIFT program)

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(dbermanmd @ Oct 31 2006, 11:46 AM) [snapback]341288[/snapback]</div>

Well, he was our go-to guy in the middle east when that happened. We should apologize for our part in that, I agree. Would Saddam have stayed in power as long as he did without our help? It's one of the unknown unknowns, I guess...

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(jared2 @ Oct 31 2006, 11:54 AM) [snapback]341293[/snapback]</div>

sounds like Detroit or Flint, MI.

at least they are free to leave Iraq.

in China - break a law and disappear - i am glad to see that you recognize a small difference between there and here.

war crime yes - not acting quicker. Illegal - no.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(jared2 @ Oct 31 2006, 11:54 AM) [snapback]341293[/snapback]</div>

And even sadder, probably 80% of the U.S wouldn't give a damn if we were "winning", whatever "winning" means.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(jared2 @ Oct 31 2006, 12:14 PM) [snapback]341306[/snapback]</div>

Yeah, that was quite the usual list of talking points. Easily rebutted, for example Gulf War I, conflict over Kuwaiti slant drilling, April Glaspie's "internal Arabian affair" remark, some incubator propaganda, and whoop, there it is. At least Daddy had the good sense to avoid invading Iraq. Too bad Junior has to try to prove his is bigger.

In his memoirs, A World Transformed, written more than five years ago, George Bush, Sr. wrote the following to explain why he didn't go after Saddam Hussein at the end of the Gulf War:

"Trying to eliminate Saddam .. would have incurred incalculable human and political costs. Apprehending him was probably impossible ... We would have been forced to occupy Baghdad and, in effect, rule Iraq ...there was no viable "exit strategy" we could see, violating another of our principles. Furthermore, we had been self-consciously trying to set a pattern for handling aggression in the post-Cold War world. Going in and occupying Iraq, thus unilaterally exceeding the United Nations' mandate, would have destroyed the precedent of international response to aggression that we hoped to establish. Had we gone the invasion route, the United States could conceivably still be an occupying power in a bitterly hostile land."


Anyway, dberman's list seems to frame the issue as opposition of the war as being the same as support for Saddam. Not at all in my book. Oh, and some bonus points for inculding the SWIFT thing, which was already public news, and omitting Valerie Plame being outed. Did * ever catch the "leaker" on that? Probably on the to-do list after "get Osama dead or alive".

 

Apologize? For which war?

How about when we told the Shiites to rise up against Saddam in Gulf War I, and they did, and then we sat there while he slaughtered them?

Or do you mean apologize for being such arrogant asses in thinking that we could take down their government machinery and that everyone would just magically live happily ever after, and that we wouldn't need any post-war planning, we wouldn't need enough troops to keep the peace, etc.?

We removed their government, police, army, etc. and then were surprised when the looting started? I mean they were poor people who had been scraping by under the weight of UN sanctions, why were we surprised? At least they waited a day or two before they started looting, unlike in L.A. or New Orleans.

Or do you mean apologize for giving the insurgency so much time to build and grow while we fed ourselves on denials about what we were up against? Just a few dead-enders, right?

Or do you mean apologize for unemploying those in the Iraqi Army? Or drastically reducing the vetting and training of new recruits in an effort to inflate the apparent numbers for political purposes, thereby making infiltration by the insurgency that much easier?

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(dbermanmd @ Oct 31 2006, 01:46 PM) [snapback]341288[/snapback]</div>

I must say....






....GREAT POST!


...or, you can look at it another way:

They OWE US an apology for letting Iraq become the country it became, and keeping Saddam in power for so long, thereby giving us no choice but to invade at some point....

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(jared2 @ Oct 31 2006, 12:48 PM) [snapback]341337[/snapback]</div>

cute. you failed, intentionally or not, to address my points of apology. To bring up one of my points - how many Iraqi's do you think Saddam should have been able to slaughter before we should have intervened? Or do you think he should still be in power killing, raping, torturing, paying off the French?

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(dbermanmd @ Oct 31 2006, 01:19 PM) [snapback]341353[/snapback]</div>

What's with the dissing of the French? If they hadn't helped liberate us from Mother England, we'd all be speaking English now instead of American. Why do you hate America?

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Beryl Octet @ Oct 31 2006, 01:28 PM) [snapback]341360[/snapback]</div>

I Love America. I like France too - nice country - great food and wine.