Diesel or Hybrid or Petrol

I'm trying to read the article but I am very disracted and maybe missed the tone of the article. What is this all about?

"OK, having dispelled some of the myths, let’s look at some of the realities.

Hybrids’ High Voltage Batteries

Firstly, those people who have said that the length of life of the high voltage batteries in hybrids will prove to be their Achilles Heel are absolutely right. The Japan-only NHW10 Prius, released in 1998, is now experiencing widespread battery failure. My wife’s car, a grey market import, has a defective battery. Battery repacking is not available and even getting secondhand batteries is difficult – a difficulty made, it must be said, much more so by its grey market status.

Both Toyota and Honda are bending over backwards to replace high voltage batteries in dealer-sold hybrids – in the US it is official policy to replace, free of charge, Insight batteries of cars sold in certain, climatically hot areas. In Australia Honda won’t tell you that you can have a new battery - but they fitted one to my Insight at no cost.

The next two Prius models – the NHW11 and NHW20 – have better designed batteries but it is an absolute certainty that these battery packs will not last the mechanical life of the car. (That’s especially the case when the Prius mechanicals seem exceptionally durable!) Unless aftermarket manufacturers take up the challenge to produce OE direct fit batteries at reasonable prices (and it’s quite likely that in the future they will), or car manufacturers dramatically drop the price of new batteries, then hybrids will adopt orphan status as they get old. "

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(AussieOwner @ Nov 24 2007, 12:19 AM) [snapback]543480[/snapback]</div>

So, you don't want to offer any real thoughts about the article but you want others to offer theirs? You're just posting urls then, eh? I could get as much from a google search. By the way, the word is spelled 'summarize'.

 

I found the article interesting but I need someone to dispel a little of ny ignorance. What's a grey market?

 

A grey market car is a car that is not available in your country, but it is imported anyway. It is purchased in another country, then shipped to your country. Thus, you end up with the car you want, but no warranty support, or OEM support.

 

By the way, the word is spelled 'summarize'.
[/quote]

...or summarise in England and its former colonies (USA excepted).

As a transplanted Brit, I have often ended up translating Britspeak, but please don't ask me to explain the subtle differences between wanker, tosser and dickhead!

Also don't ask why Brits collapse laughing when an American introduces himself as "Hi,I'm Randy!"

Mike

 

JackDodge

for your information in Australia we use the "s" and not the "z" in words


:lol:


on a side note

i liked his article very much, it was quite informative and very practical as he has driven all those different types of cars

he mentions that the battery "will" die in the prius. Maybe i should just stick with my 05 Petrol Civic?

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(clayton4115 @ Nov 24 2007, 04:52 PM) [snapback]543693[/snapback]</div>

But he never mentions how long. All components die eventually.

What are his expectations?

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(clayton4115 @ Nov 24 2007, 02:52 PM) [snapback]543693[/snapback]</div>

Actually i think he caught the extra "e" in the spelling and wasn't focusing on the s vs z. I'm not concerned either way.

Your engine will eventually die as well. Nothing mechanical last forever. The gains over your Civic may be too small to warrant switching to a hybrid and that should be the deciding factor, not the battery life which from all reports seems to be very long. This is why I had a problem with the article. I do not see people with hyrbid batteries dying left and right.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(john1701a @ Nov 25 2007, 09:18 AM) [snapback]543697[/snapback]</div>

i read somewhere that Toyota had made the battery to last like 400,000 kms, or in your language 250,000 Miles,

so im sure that there wont be any problems with batteries during the life of the car

heck ive got a 1988 Mitsubishi Magna here (on its last legs) with 180,000 kms on it (111k miles) i dont think i would ever get 250k miles in any car!

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(clayton4115 @ Nov 24 2007, 07:24 PM) [snapback]543702[/snapback]</div>

I've got two Honda Civics (conventional) with over 140K miles on each, and they're barely broken in. With proper maintenance, I don't see any great difficulty getting 300K miles from each of them.

Harry

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(JackDodge @ Nov 25 2007, 03:21 AM) [snapback]543593[/snapback]</div>

Please remind me why you're here? Thankyou for your useful post, most insightful but only in showing your ignorance on a global forum.

AussieOwner, thanks for posting the link, it is an article I most likely would have missed had you not posted it, unlike JackDodge I don't have a list of key words I search each day on google.

I think the writer was slightly biased in his writings of the failure rate of batteries in hybrid cars. His car was not only a first generation of the Prius, we all know the first one is always the best, NOT, he then admits to having modified the ICE placing additional load on the electrical system. Also to complain of a lack of dealer support is ridiculous. I feel sure if he took the car to the dealer network the car was distributed through in Japan he could purchase a new battery.

If the battery is in fact a pack of D cells why doesn't he take it to the local Battery World for a repack? It would cost but I'm sure they could do it. I expect Toyota didn't want the NHW10 to be distributed globally so they could keep any future dealer support for a cutting edge car in their home country. He also gives no concession to the work put in to develop better, more reliable batteries but bases his opinion of battery reliability on his one modified car.

At least this writer has managed to release himself from the normal motoring writer trap of comparing the Prius with smaller less powerful diesels on roads ideally suited to the dirty heavy oil burners and not the urban environment the Prius was designed for and he has realised that even on the highway a Prius is more frugal than a diesel of similar size and performance. I think that makes a Prius a winner over a turbo diesel.

Cost of battery replacement? why not offset that against the cost of turbo replacement after all in the early days the only thing that failed more than turbos in small diesels was the withdrawal method of birth control. Then there are the expensive fuel pumps, injectors and conventional automatic transmissions to consider along with more frequent and costly servicing.

My last Toyota was sold as a good, running 17 year old car getting good economy and still producing good power at 288,000km and I expect the same from my Prius.

 

Stop making sense Pat, you're going to tick everyone off. :lol:

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(F8L @ Nov 25 2007, 09:58 AM) [snapback]543717[/snapback]</div>

Sorry mate, sometimes I get these spasms.

 

Good article. I have one observation, though. The battery-longevity issue seems to be more of problem to the author than it is to most of us. Accounts of Toyota buying back a Classic Prius taxicab from a guy in Vancouver, BC, to determine the condition of the battery pack after 200k miles, suggest that the batteries should last the mechanical life of the car. This observation contradicts what the author says when he refers to the batteries as the hybrid's "Achilles Heel". Comments?

 

The DOE also conducted a study on Prius battery longevity. They stopped at 160K mi when the batteries showed no noticable degradation. Didn't most of the battery bollocks come from the Insight, which has a much more primitive battery management system than the Prius'?

The whole premise is a little silly. Diesel and current hybrids are only a short term solution, each with their pros and cons. Neither is really scalable though. The difference is that the hybrid is the first step along a more sustainable path.

 

It appears his Prius falls outside the normal range of use to be used for an observation on hybrid batteries in general. It was a grey market car, which may not have been new, with an after market turbo installed. It is possible, that this Prius came out of the factory with a bad pack. Nobody is perfect. But one example doesn't constitute a trend.

 

A grey import in Australia is 99.9% sure to be a used car, being an early Prius it is a first generation Prius. Cutting edge technology in a new model, when was the last time you heard of that type of event going without a hitch? Ford can't bring out a conventional all new model without problems. Search AU falcon to see what I'm talking about.